The ongoing rape debates - my take.

Dec 05, 2005 09:29

My basic principle is that this is an imperfect world or, to put it colloquially, shit happens. This has two corollaries ( Read more... )

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neonchameleon December 5 2005, 12:03:22 UTC
Re: point 1, a significant section of the population in a recent survey said that if the woman had done one of a number of things to make rape more likely, she was partially responsible. There was a large outcry against this view (as opposed to the indefensible view that she was completely responsible). From this there are two possible conclusions - either that (as with you), they see talking about the matter to be harmful or that they see no responsibility for self-protection (as opposed to no measure of blame).

And I see no contradiction between the rest of your post and anything I said above. Especially point 2 - rape isn't the only bad thing that can happen and you are avoiding less serious but far more likely bad things...

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neonchameleon December 5 2005, 13:45:37 UTC
I didn't say that not taking basic precautions was morally wrong - I said it was stupid and a breach of responsibility. (This is my view on not looking before you cross the road). It would be morally wrong to fail to uphold responsibilities to others, but if you are the victim this doesn't apply. They have a moral duty to consider the risks and rewards and are responsible for the course of action that this leads them to take. (This is not the same as no moral obligation ( ... )

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fu_manchu12 December 5 2005, 20:59:16 UTC
I'm not sure that the term 'blame' has been correctly pinned down in the coverage of this debate. I don't think anyone is talking about legal blame so much as 'blame' as a kind of common sense precautionary concept, but this hasn't always been picked up on.

If I were to leave all my doors and windows unlocked and get burgled as a result, I would be blamed for the loss - but the crime would still have been committed in its entirety by someone else, whose sentence would not be lessened by the fact that I had stupidly placed temptation in their path. If I choose to detour through a darkened sink estate instead of down a well-lit highway, I might justly be blamed for being mugged, though the criminality of the act would be entirely intact and belong only to the criminal. The same concept applies to anything else.

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debslover December 6 2005, 10:24:49 UTC
I admit that the number of attackers should become less by way of the attacked turning the tables...but having been the victim as a child of a pedophile and being married now to a woman who's daughter is the production of rape I have to find your comment somewhat insulting and naive.

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neonchameleon December 6 2005, 12:34:13 UTC
1: Kids are not responsible. It is part of being a kid.

This also fits in with the purpose and measure of society - the purpose of society is to be less arbitrary, capricious and callous than nature and the measure of society is how it treats the weakest. (This is also one reason that paedophilia is rightly regarded as a particularly serious crime).

2: Trying to turn the tables isn't considered a good idea by all - if it doesn't work, it will probably make the violence a lot worse - and even weight for weight, men have the edge in terms of physical violence.

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debslover December 6 2005, 16:46:59 UTC
Fear is the attackers greatest weapon. Pound for pound I'd rather fight a man than a calm woman in fear for her life any day.

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eq_charith December 6 2005, 10:34:33 UTC
yes, its true shit happens. but feel free to speak with rape victums and find out the circumstances in which they were raped. i find your comments about this subject ignorant. my rape was no more preventable than anyone elses.. a rapist is one who will not be stopped until someone of greater force stops them. your "shit happens" theory is completely off base.

in short.. feel free to jump up your own ass concerning this topic. i don't think you have a clue about the impact or long term implications of such an event. not all of us can bounce back and resume with life. but, others, like myself, have been very successful in life after the rape.

i can only hope this does not happen to you.. or anyone you know. i'm sure your views would change on the topic.

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neonchameleon December 6 2005, 14:12:47 UTC
I'm sorry to hear that you were raped and also sorry that my post hurt you ( ... )

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eq_charith December 6 2005, 22:06:08 UTC
two words .. self righteous.

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neonchameleon December 7 2005, 09:43:24 UTC
... and right.

And I'm not the one calling others naive or saying that views would change under specific conditions - especially not when I don't know that those conditions already exist.

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kathrid December 6 2005, 22:17:38 UTC
It must be said, you should, before making this post, have defined what you meant by responsibility. Item (1) sounds far too much like you think women deserve to be raped if they do certain things (like wear sexy clothes, etc.), whereas I suspect you don't.

In my opinion, rape falls under category 2, the rapist is wholely responsible for his own actions and has no excuse what so ever. In the same way that I should be able to walk down a sakr alley without fear of being mugged, or wear tight trousers without fear of being raped, a woman should be able to act in whatever way she wishes without needing to fear rapists, or being made to feel partly to blame by people who (delierately or, as in your case, accidentally) use the about argument (1) to do so.

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kathrid December 6 2005, 22:19:16 UTC
In the above comment for 'sakr' read 'dark'. For some reason my typing decided to totally fail over that word.

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neonchameleon December 7 2005, 09:41:17 UTC
That's why I almost always combine item 1 and item 2 when commenting.

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