The Jamey Dodger Society

[ninedaysaqueen]

For prevention of cruelty to reprobates.

Current Members
ninedaysaqueen
smallsotong
inkasrain
an_english_girl
dannybailey
filkferengi
mikkaybear
agh_4
frosted_feather

*rings gong*

I call to order the first meeting of the Jamey Dodger Society, a group for those who have read a "Thick as Thieves" arc or want to become as spoiled as Varuca Salt.

Comments

[inkasrain]

Has anyone else figured out why Costis didn't die in the well? I about squealed when it dawned on me.

[ninedaysaqueen]

It was full of flour, right? The dog also broke his fall?

[inkasrain]

He did land on the dog, but I think the reason that happened goes back to "Know that you will never die of a fall unless the god himself drops you."

[smallsotong]

!!! I forgot about that line.

But does that mean... Eugenides the god has some influence in Medea?

Timeline

[smallsotong]

Where do you think this fits into the timeline with respect to ACoK? I was trying to figure this out, because it doesn't seem that Kamet is aware of any of the events in ACoK that involve the Medes. It seems like it would have to be some time after ACoK for Attolia's pregnancy to fit into the timeline. Maybe because Nahuseresh was in disgrace, he didn't know much about the Mede involvement in Sounis (and therefore Kamet was also out of the loop)? What do you think?

Re: Timeline

[inkasrain]

Being terrible with timelines, my only contribution here is a literary consideration. I'll admit that the latter half of the travelogue had me kind of... well, a little bored. I was waiting for Something To Happen Already (and maybe to not spend so much time tinning a pot.) The only literary reason I can think of for such a long journey is the progress of Irene's pregnancy -- that she had to carry to a certain point, and that Costis and Kamet couldn't arrive until then.

Why that is exactly, I'm not sure... but I assume it must be important.

RE: Re: Timeline

[ninedaysaqueen]

But we now know Costis can tin pots! XD

I personally found the later parts the most exciting. I only ever started to get a little bored when they were traveling with the caravan. The length of the journey is parellel to Kamet's personal journey. By the time he gets to Attolia, he's ready to help them and genuinely wants to be free. Megan had to take her time with making that transition believable. The Kamet that escaped from the port with Costis wasn't anywhere near that point. He probably would've given them false information or something...

While this is definitely a travel book like Thief, the stakes are much higher and the danger far more at their heels. There is also the struggle for survival against the elements while avoiding a man hunt. Unlike Thief which is much more meander-y? for the first half. Though the Thief has a similar reason for all that traveling, stage setting and character development.

Re: Timeline

[smallsotong]

I actually really liked the tinning pots part!! :D :D

Mostly I enjoyed seeing Costis interact with the family...and Kamet got to experience how normal people live and interact.

Kamet’s journey

[smallsotong]

So, Kamet’s journey across the Mede empire is a physical one, but also a personal one. There are all these little events that build on each other as he learns things like how to have a friend, and how to live as a free man (which involves both free choice and the consequences/responsibilities associated with those choice), and also that free men don’t all behave like Nahuseresh. Which parts stood out to you? I’ll list some that I remember best (not strictly in order

Re: Kamet’s journey

[ninedaysaqueen]

YES! This story was as much a spiritual and emotional journey as it was a physical one. Largely about an abuse victim and his path towards recovery and recognizing his right towards self-autonomy

Re: Kamet’s journey

[smallsotong]

On Kamet: There’s the layer of abuse-victim that you talk about, but there’s also another layer of Empire and Power that is mixed in with it. Kamet (like Nahuseresh) does really believe that the empire is a great and good force in the world (it opens trade! it civilises the world! - the things that empires from ancient to modern have always believed of themselves

RE: Re: Kamet’s journey

[ninedaysaqueen]

Ow, that's a really interesting observation! He does honestly think that way. I felt that was in part a symptom of brainwashing and sympathy for one's captors. Maybe, that's why I sympathized with him more immediately. What he describes as "training" sounded a lot like brainwashing to me

Questions I still have

[smallsotong]

1. Why was Gen rubbing his ear??

2. What does the knife-buyer see in Kamet's face?

3. “Remember Immakuk. Pay the fastener” - who's the fastener? What even is a fastener?

4. What exactly was the purpose of the war galleys + arresting Costis and Kamet? Was it protecting Kamet from assassination? Or was it more to do with potential instability from the news of the miscarriage? I wasn't sure.

Re: Questions I still have

[ninedaysaqueen]

(1) I noticed the ear thing too. What was up with that? Was he nervous? Embarrassed?

(2) The weapon seller was trying to haggle, right? I think Kamet put on his "scary face" to quote your icon. XD Thus, the merchant decided not to mess with him and gave him a fair price.

(3) Hardware? XD I missed this. Where was that? I would assume it's a reference to one of the stories. I need to go back over the myths. I tend to blaze through them on the first read and not understand their significance till much later.

(4) I've re-read this one several times... I'm still confused about it. I would assume it was intended to disguise their arrival and protect them, but they arrived on an ordinary ship with a flag that only Costis and a few other people understood the significance of. Wouldn't it just draw unnecessary attention to them? I'm missing something, I think.

Re: Questions I still have

[smallsotong]

(3) is the prophecy that Costis receives. He is also confused by it.

(4) And when Costis gets all huffy about it, Teleus says "Think, you idiot" <- which means Costis should be able to figure this out?

(I took a bunch of notes in anticipation of giving away my arc, which is why I have all these random things on hand)

edit: Now I can't stop thinking of the squid as Kamet's scary-face! XD

Re: Questions I still have

[ninedaysaqueen]

On #4

[dannybailey]

I just joined (thanks ninedaysaqueen for adding me) and I'm loving the conversation so far. It has definitely increased my appreciation of the book even more.

So, first things first: I have a confession to make. I'm a long-time slash fan and I tend to read with slash goggles. That being said, I really think there was some extremely heavy hinting at a romantic relationship between Costis and Kamet. I think it was mirrored in the myths as well. Although - again - I may be biased here!

I also have another confession... about halfway or maybe three-fourths of the way through the book I started wondering if maybe I didn't really like it. I felt horribly guilty about it, since I've been anticipating it for so long and of course we're lucky that we have a book! But I guess all the wandering and the seemingly endless setbacks and sidetracks really made me impatient. Luckily I think the end of the book was so strong that it completely made up for the meandering middle. I loved everything about Eugenides and Irene. I'm a sucker for sad, angsty scenes! And

[ninedaysaqueen]

I'm not usually a slash goggler, but I'm right there with you on Costis/Kamet! I was talking about that to mikkaybear when we were PMing. At first, I thought I was just imagining things, then Kamet was like, "He is stealing me, but not because he loves me." (-__-) You sure about that?

Also, Godekker thinking they were lovers... "Does he only have eyes for you? Does he tell you how much he loves you? Does he tell you how pretty you are?" O_O Wait, what am I reading!!!???? Is this really happening?

Take a shot every time Kamet mentions how strong, good looking, or buff Costis is. XP

Kamet at the end when he is all like "Costis, my dear Costis." and talking about him in his letter like they're an old married couple. Stop bringing smelly plants into the house, honey! XD Plus, Costis followed him when he left! AHHHH! <3 <3 <3

[dannybailey]

Ooh, I'm glad to hear that even the non-slashers are seeing it! Yes, I almost forgot about what Godekker says to Kamet. Gosh, there was a lot of innuendo in this book. Which, of course, I enjoyed very much

[ninedaysaqueen]

He does like to go on and on about how strong and competent Costis is. I get it Kamet. You think Costis is hot and has skillz! XD