philosophy: taoism? epistemology?
I posted something here: http://community.livejournal.com/taoism/120257.html?view=701121
which might be of interest.
Which I will repost in part:
onfeynyuan_shen
2007-07-17 05:41 am UTC (link)
a book I liked, called I Ching Wisdom, might be helpful to you.
I don't know that much about Taoism, but I found it useful for me.
isbn 0-943015-03-0
the author is Wu Wei.
hope this helps.
(Reply to this)
no-thing
onfeynyuan_shen
2007-07-17 06:44 am UTC (link)
I would humbly like to suggest some commentary in light of previous
posts.
I think for a time, when I 'played' at religion, I found things that
justified what I already believed; I would point to it and say to
others, knowingly: ah, but you are wrong! You cannot comprehend my
wisdom, because I study from this ancient source!" or some other
vaguely plausible excuse, which may have been true in a few
instances, but mostly 'enabled' me to pawn off my beliefs on others,
and believe I was wise, which was important to me.
I believe one is responsible for their actions, however, and that
one cannot use the excuse of religion alone to justify their
actions: even when one is right, one carries the responsibility for
the beliefs they carry, and how they interpret and act on these in
life.
This puts one in the precarious postion sometimes, of realizing that
justification for things cannot be merely dogma, or wisdom that
cannot be comprehended, but must face up to the rigours of scrutiny,
challenges to both intuition, the intellect, and the heart -heaven,
earth, and man.
People would argue with my reasoning: sometimes I was at a loss for
words, and could not explain them properly - other times, I asked my
self the question, and plumbed the depths of my 'wisdom', and I came
up with 'nothing.' Sometimes, later, I would see a reasoning which
made sense: other times, I chose to reject my previous beliefs in
favour of something from one of the other three spheres. Other
times, I was left with a question that I could not answer, and I did
the only thing I could; I ignored it and buried it in the rest of my
life, where it sat, waiting to be understood. Sometimes, it would
become unburied, showing its teeth, forcing me to reject other
beliefs that made me feel comfortable, safe: wise.
There is truly ancient wisdom out there of great value, lost,
hidden, buried, some buried right under our noses, waiting for the
right set of circumstances and experiences to unlock them. Reading a
book alone is not wisdom: memorizing the words will not necessarily
increase your IQ in a meaningful way, I believe.
It starts with a question, and honest desire for the truth: a
question that is not easily satisfied, that is well asked: and a
desire that is excruciatingly sincere. When you wake up at night
because your easy answers cannot satisfy you: this too is part of
the path, I think.
So dare you question the ancient wisdom? Neither that should be held
sacred either, fearing it will lose its inner life, and meaning:
everything must be interpretted, to become personal, to be opened to
your inner life, to be unlocked truth must be lived - I feel. When
you interpret there will be errors; in those errors there will be
new truths, your truths. Sometimes, in time the context will be
revealed, and the original face of truth that was intended will
surface: but by then, you will have found many more.
Many of the deeper truths, let's call them universal truths, though
they may be one thing, can seem like many things, in many places in
time; your subjective truth, your experience, is a window, that sees
the surface, but not always the true nature of the contents. A
universal truth tries to express the nature of the whole thing,
simply, all at once. If you can subjectively only see one side of
it, you confuse one face as the whole of it. If you remember this
simple, universal 'name' given to a truth, and given experience, you
can relate the different aspects of one being to this 'name.' Many
lifetimes are given to find names for things that suit them - I find
that learning the names other seekers have given to their truths,
helps me see where mine fit in, helps me relate my experiences to
the truths I'm trying to find.
...contd
(Reply to this)(Thread)
Re: no-thing
onfeynyuan_shen
2007-07-17 06:44 am UTC (link)
Comment Posted Successfully
If you know yourself - which takes continuous returns to reflection
- then you can know your own truth. If you can face the 'nothing' -
not knowing, questions that defy your will to be chained; and you
learn to listen - not rejecting, not judging, but seeing other's
personal truths in the context and truth of their own lives and
perspectives - you can draw on many lifetimes of experiences, by
their names, and perhaps your study will be fruitful, instead of
merely a convenient blindfold that lets you see nothing and imagine
what you want. You must be willing to have your beliefs challenged:
be willing to challenge other beliefs: and to let your heart be
ruled by whichever seems closer to the truth. And... realize that
one days truths are tomorrows illusions to be shed: half-truths to
be improved upon.
Sorry, it is egotistical for me to say so much, as if I have studied
long or can see what others cannot given the same experiences and
interpretations. All I know is that I do not know, but I can see the
world and think about what I've seen, and if I like, to draw
conclusions.
Perhaps a last thing I would like to say, is: insight can come from
anywhere, at anytime: but taking the time to try and form and reform
your questions, can help you change your perspective, the way you
see. Ask is this blue. Ask is this not blue. Try to answer both
honestly, try to PROVE each true, try to find the flaws in your
answers. The TRUTH is, the answer depends on the QUESTION, and the
questioner: but do not be afraid if another answer comes to you
unbidden from a question to which it is not the answer.
So, I cannot say you must revere the ancient truths, and not treat
it like a game: because it is. Nor can I tell you to follow your own
truth, and ignore the worlds of others: for without them you stumble
blindly.
All I can do is nod, and smile, and say: I hope your questions bear
the fruit you are seeking.
m_G
which might be of interest.
Which I will repost in part:
onfeynyuan_shen
2007-07-17 05:41 am UTC (link)
a book I liked, called I Ching Wisdom, might be helpful to you.
I don't know that much about Taoism, but I found it useful for me.
isbn 0-943015-03-0
the author is Wu Wei.
hope this helps.
(Reply to this)
no-thing
onfeynyuan_shen
2007-07-17 06:44 am UTC (link)
I would humbly like to suggest some commentary in light of previous
posts.
I think for a time, when I 'played' at religion, I found things that
justified what I already believed; I would point to it and say to
others, knowingly: ah, but you are wrong! You cannot comprehend my
wisdom, because I study from this ancient source!" or some other
vaguely plausible excuse, which may have been true in a few
instances, but mostly 'enabled' me to pawn off my beliefs on others,
and believe I was wise, which was important to me.
I believe one is responsible for their actions, however, and that
one cannot use the excuse of religion alone to justify their
actions: even when one is right, one carries the responsibility for
the beliefs they carry, and how they interpret and act on these in
life.
This puts one in the precarious postion sometimes, of realizing that
justification for things cannot be merely dogma, or wisdom that
cannot be comprehended, but must face up to the rigours of scrutiny,
challenges to both intuition, the intellect, and the heart -heaven,
earth, and man.
People would argue with my reasoning: sometimes I was at a loss for
words, and could not explain them properly - other times, I asked my
self the question, and plumbed the depths of my 'wisdom', and I came
up with 'nothing.' Sometimes, later, I would see a reasoning which
made sense: other times, I chose to reject my previous beliefs in
favour of something from one of the other three spheres. Other
times, I was left with a question that I could not answer, and I did
the only thing I could; I ignored it and buried it in the rest of my
life, where it sat, waiting to be understood. Sometimes, it would
become unburied, showing its teeth, forcing me to reject other
beliefs that made me feel comfortable, safe: wise.
There is truly ancient wisdom out there of great value, lost,
hidden, buried, some buried right under our noses, waiting for the
right set of circumstances and experiences to unlock them. Reading a
book alone is not wisdom: memorizing the words will not necessarily
increase your IQ in a meaningful way, I believe.
It starts with a question, and honest desire for the truth: a
question that is not easily satisfied, that is well asked: and a
desire that is excruciatingly sincere. When you wake up at night
because your easy answers cannot satisfy you: this too is part of
the path, I think.
So dare you question the ancient wisdom? Neither that should be held
sacred either, fearing it will lose its inner life, and meaning:
everything must be interpretted, to become personal, to be opened to
your inner life, to be unlocked truth must be lived - I feel. When
you interpret there will be errors; in those errors there will be
new truths, your truths. Sometimes, in time the context will be
revealed, and the original face of truth that was intended will
surface: but by then, you will have found many more.
Many of the deeper truths, let's call them universal truths, though
they may be one thing, can seem like many things, in many places in
time; your subjective truth, your experience, is a window, that sees
the surface, but not always the true nature of the contents. A
universal truth tries to express the nature of the whole thing,
simply, all at once. If you can subjectively only see one side of
it, you confuse one face as the whole of it. If you remember this
simple, universal 'name' given to a truth, and given experience, you
can relate the different aspects of one being to this 'name.' Many
lifetimes are given to find names for things that suit them - I find
that learning the names other seekers have given to their truths,
helps me see where mine fit in, helps me relate my experiences to
the truths I'm trying to find.
...contd
(Reply to this)(Thread)
Re: no-thing
onfeynyuan_shen
2007-07-17 06:44 am UTC (link)
Comment Posted Successfully
If you know yourself - which takes continuous returns to reflection
- then you can know your own truth. If you can face the 'nothing' -
not knowing, questions that defy your will to be chained; and you
learn to listen - not rejecting, not judging, but seeing other's
personal truths in the context and truth of their own lives and
perspectives - you can draw on many lifetimes of experiences, by
their names, and perhaps your study will be fruitful, instead of
merely a convenient blindfold that lets you see nothing and imagine
what you want. You must be willing to have your beliefs challenged:
be willing to challenge other beliefs: and to let your heart be
ruled by whichever seems closer to the truth. And... realize that
one days truths are tomorrows illusions to be shed: half-truths to
be improved upon.
Sorry, it is egotistical for me to say so much, as if I have studied
long or can see what others cannot given the same experiences and
interpretations. All I know is that I do not know, but I can see the
world and think about what I've seen, and if I like, to draw
conclusions.
Perhaps a last thing I would like to say, is: insight can come from
anywhere, at anytime: but taking the time to try and form and reform
your questions, can help you change your perspective, the way you
see. Ask is this blue. Ask is this not blue. Try to answer both
honestly, try to PROVE each true, try to find the flaws in your
answers. The TRUTH is, the answer depends on the QUESTION, and the
questioner: but do not be afraid if another answer comes to you
unbidden from a question to which it is not the answer.
So, I cannot say you must revere the ancient truths, and not treat
it like a game: because it is. Nor can I tell you to follow your own
truth, and ignore the worlds of others: for without them you stumble
blindly.
All I can do is nod, and smile, and say: I hope your questions bear
the fruit you are seeking.
m_G