Am I Reading This Wrong? So Offensive.

[onionsoupmix]

No time to write much, studying for the bar and packing for the move is taking up all of my time.

But just recently I was trying to find something about bechira on chabad.org and came across this speech that the Rebbe apparently gave to a group of college students in the 60s. It's all pretty standard except for this appalling part:

Question: One

Comments

[ext_675596]

A slightly different question might be: What makes a Jew a Jew in the first place?

As I've pointed out I would say it is the possession of a very elevated, very holy soul which a person aquires by either converting to Judaism or by having inherited it through matrilineal descent from someone else who converted.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/07/are-jews-race.html

As far as the purpose of non-Jews, everything in the universe surely has many beneficial purposes, whether obvious or not.

[onionsoupmix]

jacob stein, on some level do you not secretly wonder if all of these beliefs are just a very unsubtle form of self aggrandizement?

You write about the possession of a very elevated holy soul acquired through conversion and you frequently self-identify as a ger- it's kind of like if I were to announce that my religious beliefs require me to consider married female law students from the mid-west to be God's very special chosen few. Duh. Of course we all want to believe that we're special but are we really? Nope.

[ext_675596]

Everyone is special. You're special too, but in a bad way.

[onionsoupmix]

as always, jacob stein, as always when you run out of real argument, you turn to ad hominem attacks. Nothing new with you, it seems. Thanks for playing.

[ruchel]

I have heard the goyim who never met a yid existed because one day, say, their great great grandson will show a plant to a guy who will turn it into meds who will help a yid, for example.

I personally don't think goyim are here to serve, but certainly to help make the world better and if possible to help jews (bne noach style).

What you say about death, is true for Jews too. Finished? bye bye! of course for the family it is still sad!

[onionsoupmix]

I personally don't think goyim are here to serve, but certainly to help make the world better and if possible to help jews (bne noach style).

What's the difference between thinking goyim are here to serve and thinking they are here to help Jews if possible? Are Jews here to help goyim? Does it work the other way too? If we're all here to help each other, that's swell, but I don't think that's what you're saying, is it?

[ruchel]

Jews need to be a light to the nations and teach Noahide laws.
As individuals we also all need to help each other.

[mrn613]

This opinion to me is better than the opinion that I have recently heard espoused by chabadniks that goyim are part of the animal kingdom not the human kingdom!

Anyway seems like your problems are tied up with chabad philosophies once again. The rest of us ain't like that.

[onionsoupmix]

I think more and more yeshivish people are becoming like this. It is contagious. Anyway, my outrage in this post is that the rebbe said this, a great leader or someone who I thought was a great leader. He speaks for all of chabad, it's not just some lone nut.

Yeshivish people

[ext_241192]

This is true, by the way. The "chassidishization" of Yeshivish people has been going on for a decade or two. Look at all the ways Yeshivish people abandon their families' minhagim to adopt "stricter/better/crazier" chassidish customs. The adoption of chassidish thought is also occurring.

Re: Yeshivish people

[mrn613]

Look at all the ways chasidim have abandoned all their fathers' minhagim too though. In Europe there really wasn't such a thing as a yeshiva until between the two wars and certainly not a kollel.

anyway chabad lubavitch is not a typical chasidic group. Most of the people who currently identify as chabad are not descended from lubavitch chasidim from Europe and they were not brought in from other chasidism. the minhagim of their fathers are the same ones as the "yesivish" people you mention because they have the same great grandparents.

Goyim

[ext_241192]

The argument of "the goyim are here to help/serve us" is not a new one. Many Jews also believe that goyim will be servants/slaves to the Jews in the Messianic Era.

[murushi]

> many frum communities have problems with welfare fraud and criminality in general

Yep, and it's not just with the gentiles. Many frummies regard non-frum Jews as the "lower rank"; therefore the welfare etc fraud is rampant in Israel too, where they obviously steal money from other Jews, not gentiles.

On the other hand, maybe it's not the "ranking" of the all creation into who serves whom. Maybe they just re-defined what "thou shall not steal" means.