What are the chances?

[onionsoupmix]

Religious people generally believe that God controls our lives and is intimately involved in the details. If a leaf  falls, it was to protect an ant and so on. Everything that happens does so only because it was the will of God that this should occur

Comments

[miris_rants]

Just read about this, horrific... Was wondering how long will it take you to post.

Agree, this is beyond ridiculous :(( And I'm sincerely hoping that there will be no "defense" and "dont put an yid to jail" there...

[hamaskil]

I wonder how many yidden would demand death penalty in the case when a goy killed a Jewish child, yet would organize support events in the case when a Jew killed a goy.

[lostreality]

i'm doing research now on college students hooking up with each other, and the context in which they met each other. And our working theory is that students who meet each other through a friend (personal recommendation) or through something like a school activity (institutional event) are more likely to take stupid risks during hookups like not using condoms, using more drugs and alcohol, because of a false sense of security/familiarity.

That is to say, I wonder how much this pyschopath being jewish and the rampant us vs. themism led to a false sense of security on the boy's part.

[miris_rants]

well maybe there was this sense of security, but I dont think it's "us vs them" in a 9 year old's mind. I think it's more like - yes, here's this person who's frum like me and it's a "mitzvah" to help a fellow jew so why wouldnt he help me? It's based on his knowledge and experience - he's taught in school to help a fellow Jew AND Torah says "don't kill", so WHY would he think a guy who's cleraly a chassid would do something like that?! I mean honestly - growing up, in a totally non-Jewish environment, we used to play on the streets and I'd feel entirely comfortable asking an adult for help. It sickens me that society as a whole became such an unsafe place.

[onionsoupmix]

I think this is relevant to why he chose this person to ask for help. I do think about how there were so many other people out there at 5 and he chose this one to ask for help as opposed to all the rest, who would not have murdered him.

[lostreality]

its possible the killer approached him first... was purposely driving around a school at dismissal time hoping to catch a kid walking alone

[llennhoff]

Shouldn't you be asking why this doesn't shake your faith, rather than why it would increase it?

[elcour]

+1
Very good point.

And, since OSM is a lawyer in making, I'll try to respond to her questions precisely.

What exactly about this makes you certain that God exists?
Nothing.

And that you'd like to live your life according to His rules?
Probably nothing, too.

To further this interesting topic, which, unfortunately, has been presented here in a somewhat demagogic light (where demagoguery is not an insult but a term referring to the rhetoric method of creating false impressions without reverting to direct untruthful statements), I'll throw a couple more questions into the pot:
1. What exactly about the above story makes you certain that global warming is actually occurring?
2. And that you should be brushing your teeth before going to sleep?

[hamaskil]

We all know that dear rabbi's views are somewhat similar to the philosophy of prof. Leibowitz, for instance, to clarify that approach, allow me to quote a Wikipedia article:

If a person stops believing after an awful event, it shows that he only obeyed God because he thought he understood God’s plan, or because he expected to see a reward. But “for Leibowitz, religious belief is not an explanation of life, nature or history, or a promise of a future in this world or another, but a demand.”

Now, personally, for me this view of God doesn't make much sense. For some people, apparently, it does.

[elcour]

We all know that dear rabbi's views are somewhat similar to the philosophy of prof. Leibowitz
Hm. Now, what rabbi would that be, I wonder.

personally, for me this view of God doesn't make much sense
Good to know.
However, what does all that have to do with the initial post?

[hamaskil]

OSM, a religious person reading your post may come up with the following kinds of answers:

1) I can't understand god no matter how much I try, yet I am supposed to do all the mitzvot.
2) It was all from the shomayim, gam zu letovah
3) There is no god and I won't observe any mitzvos anymore. Down with rabbis.

I personally like option 3.

[onionsoupmix]

You won't believe the idiocy I have seen on frum sites. Of course, tznius comments. My skirts killed Leibby. Also some stupidity about how Hashem wanted to see achdus and tip the scales so Iran won't bomb Israel. Also that he was a mamzer or a ger or someother crap and is not a real jew ...

[o_aronius]

Can you give links or quotations?

[onionsoupmix]

I will try to find. I saw the tznius thing on matzav.com from a few people. The Iran conjecture was on imamother. The " the murderer is not a real Jew" was also from there.

Actually, *Nothing* about This Does

[anonymous]

"What exactly about this makes you certain that God exists

Re: Actually, *Nothing* about This Does

[onionsoupmix]

There is evil in the world. God allows it to exist and allows it to harm good people

This is more than that. This is God, if I am to believe in a God, deliberately leading this child to ask for help and directions from one of the very few people in NYC who was capable of vicious murder. If it is not random, it is deliberate and intentional on the part of a deity.

Why would you trust that deity? Why would you want to worship it?

Re: Actually, *Nothing* about This Does

[anonymous]

The reason you might continue to do so has nothing really to do with the deity, but because if something happens to you and yours, you want 3000 people out there looking