Interesting analysis, and I agree with you on pretty much everything. Except for Cas' swearing and haircut, I love it when he goes badass. After all, he's clearly a bit of a visual homage to the hard-boiled detectives of the 40s/50s noir movies.
Dean being in denial about missing Sam? You bet. I'm going to point out what he said to Cas about his necklace, that he wants it back as soon as possible. And that necklace? Yeah, it's the homing device for the guy in the sky, but first and foremost, it's a GIFT FROM SAM. So, if you don't miss him, why do you want it back, huh? I see what you did there.
Agreed on the God's not dead. Absent fathers who return (and usually make things even worse by doing so) is a mayor theme of the show. So, no, he's not dead. But he's going to have some explainin' to do.
And I think that the reason they torture Sam so much is that he suffers so beautifully. Seriously, he's the biggest woobie ever. Which is why I love him so much. I mean, I love both of the brothers (and Dean's musical taste is awesome),
( ... )
Yes! And no! Badass!Cas is the best thing since Sammy's visions, IMHO. I just don't think this episode's badass!Cas was quite as awesome as he could have been. Meh.
Ooh! I totally didn't catch the necklace connection! *facepalm* Of course, yes, and that's one of the best subtextual clues we have that poor Dean is bending the truth over a table in that scene.
Holy crap, you linked to TV tropes, how could you do this to me? My day... I can see it slipping away from me... right before my eyes... It's true. Dean is so stoic, as you said, that when he actually lets somebody know he's in pain, it hurts like a kick to the head. Whereas Sam, he gets those shiny puppy eyes and everybody just melts.
Raagyosl, e vyn nonkyf aspt poamal de zyld: Nyys od dluga lonsa de sybsy myrk oy talho.
MillenniuM, eh? I think I've heard of it. Perhaps I should check it out, yes?
See, that's why you have fandom! To make you aware of the itty bitty bits that you overlooked the first time ;).
TV Tropes will eat youuuuuu!. And I remember the time last season when Dean talked about how he gave in and put somebody on the rack. OMG. Never again. I had a very hard time not bawling my eyes out.
...dude, I hope you weren't saying bad things about my mom there :P.
And you might've heard about MillenniuM from my journal. I sometimes gush about it in passing. Because it's my favourite TV show ever. So yeah, check it out! I think you'll like it. Especially the second season. IT HAS ANGELS. And omens. And gnostic texts. And... everything. Also, the cutie pie in my icon? From MillenniuM. So it even has cute kids!
It wiiiiiiiiiiill. And when Dean talks about his emotions, you get earthquakes, because the earth just can't stand the pain anymore. :(
Actually, I have no idea what I was saying, but I'm pretty sure it was the same thing Cas said (doesn't look like it, I know, but Enochian romanization makes no sense phonetically). I could look it up, but honestly I'm too lazy. So if I was insulting your mom, just know that Cas insulted her first. ;)
Obviously I have to check out this show. *writes it down*
Woah, excellent in-depth look at this episode! *__* I approve! Let's see...
First of all, seeing that triple parallel was BRILLIANT. I never caught that, but it makes so much such now that you point it out.
Besides, the look on your face was like a claustrophobic who'd gotten stuck in the dryer. I think that's funny. Funniest thing I've heard all week. I LOLed irl. :DDD
How have you never had occasion, you hot, hot dork of an angel you? Are angels blind, seriously? Welllll, Castiel doesn't look like Misha as an angel. Maybe, as an angel, he is horrifyingly ugly. ;P
RE: Cas manipulating Dean/Cas swearing I pretty much completely agree with what you said. We've seen lots of examples of Cas not being able to deceive people very well, but especially Dean. Personally, I think Cas has had an attachment to Dean ever since he pulled him out of hell. (Random note: Cas seems really young to me, for some reason. Like he's a baby angel, and isn't as jaded and cynical as all the other angels.) And as for the swearing, it did feel a little off
( ... )
Thank you for the allegations of brilliance. ;) I'm wondering how closely they'll be following the parallel, you know? In any case, it's interesting. And I loved the connection with the journal, because--their father's book? The journal, the Bible? I like to died.
Maybe, as an angel, [Cas] is horrifyingly ugly. *stares at you in abject horror* I shall not dignify that conjecture with a serious answer, so please, allow these blasphemous ideas to be run over by sheep.
Holy crap, Cas as a young angel. D'awwww. It sounds right to me. Cas wasn't very high-ranking--I believe Misha said he's probably just a rank or two above "private"--and if he was young, that would make more sense. It would mean that actually he was considered trustworthy and good at what he did, hence being given the job of fishing Dean out of Hell, and he just hasn't had as much time to acquire rank--as opposed to being relatively low-rank because he didn't have the capacity for higher rank, if that makes sense. Furthermore, it would explain why he seems to be more
( ... )
long!comment is longonly_spidersSeptember 29 2009, 19:09:43 UTC
NO I DID NOT HEAR THIS. Very true, though. We really like poking Sam with sharp sticks and watching him cry. Even more than we like poking Dean with sharp sticks and watching him cry angst. I have mixed feelings about demon blood!Sam, though. On the one hand, he wasn't getting beat up all the time the way he was before. He had power, which was why I think he kept going with it. Poor guy's gotta notice that the world made him its punching bag. On the other hand, he also lost a lot of the sense of restraint and morality that made me like him from the beginning. And on the third hand, while he wasn't getting beat up the same way, emotionally he was getting the smackdown even more than before. You just couldn't quite tell as much. *shrug* ...Be interesting to see the tougher, younger Sam thing you're talking about. Because yeah, with the grades he got despite his situation, and getting in to Stanford, he must have been very confident and driven... like demon blood!Sam, but without most of the downsides
( ... )
I love you right now. Seriously -- thanks for articulating so much of what I've been disjointedly thinking about. I will be so fucking pissed off if the Winchesters actually become the vessels. Epic FAIL. I mean, poor Sam -- IF he ever nominally says the words giving consent out of desperation and hopelessness - its been manipulated and coerced from the beginning to the point that, as you say, there is no 'choice' involved. But that ain't redemption and EK has said this season is about Sam finding redemption so I'm hopeful they will only tease us about that. And further - IF Sam says yes to Lucifer, to me, that's the moment when Dean fails too.
I think Cas talking like Dean is just soooo cute. ;)
Sdfajsdkl; thank you! I'm glad you liked it, and it's good to hear that others are thinking the same stuff as I was. Makes me feel less delusional.
Yeah. I can't help but keep seeing this whole "vessel" thing as a massive metaphor for sex, and so when it comes to things like Sam and Dean being vessels, I just keep on coming to consent issues. And they're only made more obvious by the fact that angels have to get their vessel's consent before they can, uhm, go in. It's obviously like a safe-word, a way to keep the angels from being like the demons. Which is why it bothers me so much when the angels start messing with that, like Zachariah giving Dean stomach cancer and taking Sam's lungs, and everything remotely connected to Lucifer. It's not as obvious an evil as demons possessing people, but to me, it's way worse.
I really, really want to see Sam find redemption. From what spoilers I've seen for coming episodes, though, it seems like they're gonna do more than tease. Well, we'll see on Thursday!
If you're spoiled for eppie 4 keep reading -- stop if not!
Well I'm thinking that this week with the AU future is the pay off for the whole 'will he or won't he turn evil' storyline for Sam -- we get to see what happens if he does without him actually doing it. I'm good with the tension for the rest of the season -- how do they avert that happening to Sam? Lucifer is creepy -- much worse than an overt (and inept) threat from Zach.
I forgot to mention -- my Hubby who watches with me although not with the religious ferver I have, of course, thinks that Lindsay is God. If so, I gotta vote no on the sex --LOL!!!
Those are exactly the spoilers I was referring to. :) I'm hoping it'll be a very clever way to show us exactly how horrible it'll be if Sam gives in to Lucifer (just to drive the knife in a little deeper, yanno?) without actually impacting the main storyline. And that, I could look forward to, because if you don't like the man-pain, why are you watching this show?
And yes. Lucifer is way, way creepier than Zach, because he's so passive. He almost sounds sympathetic, at first. He has a way of worming in to your mind.
You mentioned that on your picspam post, which I still haven't commented on! (Bad Piper, bad!) I think it's a fascinating idea, and if Lindsay were God, I think that I would be cool with that. Heaven knows I think she's perfect anyway. They really did film a Sam/Lindsay sex scene, apparently. And I gotta say... Characters having sex with God is a place I have already gone. Many times. *is properly ashamed* Hey, there are Biblical precedents--admittedly they are metaphorical, but they're there! Check out the book of Hosea
SO MUCH WORD about Castiel's haircut kjdsfhjdskg GROW IT BACK, BITCH. And the swearing was really awkward, but that just made it adorable.
Cas says, "I've never had the occasion," as his excuse for still being a virgin. Which brings the obvious question: How have you never had occasion, you hot, hot dork of an angel you? Are angels blind, seriously? Angels have sex? Like, it's possible? They aren't just "Ken dolls", like Dean said?This is what threw me, too. It just doesn't make sense. If angels can't have sex, why would Castiel say that and why would he be embarrassed about it? It only makes sense to be embarrassed about one's own virginity in a culture that denigrates it as shameful, whereas if angels were all chaste, it would simply be the norm. On the other hand, if angels do have sex, are we supposed to believe that Castiel has seriously existed how many thousands of years without getting laid? I've heard a few theories to explain it; it's not that angels value sex so much as he knows that Dean does and he wants Dean to think
( ... )
Exactly. It just doesn't make sense. Although now I think of it, I think somebody pointed out something about Castiel's overall reaction having to do with his terror of carnality in general. That, along with what you said about him knowing that Dean values sex, would probably create his tense, uncomfortable reaction quite nicely. Or perhaps I'm over-conjecturing. Again.
In any case, from now on I am assuming that angels can indeed have sex, it's just that they don't. Probably. Perhaps they don't have sex drives the way we do. A Vulcan-type thing, maybe? (Oh gosh, Castiel+Pon Farr=sdfk'jlsdahahahaa. Oh, my mind, where are you getting all this crack from lately?)
Anyway, crack aside. No, I haven't read it--and from a look through her archives, I'm not sure I know which one you're talking about. I'm interested though, so would you mind linking me to it?
Castiel's terror makes sense to me, it's his embarrassment I was o_O about. But yeah, it's not like this can't be smoothed over with fanwanking of various sorts.
I think it's probably that angels can't have sex in their true forms, but in a human body, why not?
Comments 16
Dean being in denial about missing Sam? You bet. I'm going to point out what he said to Cas about his necklace, that he wants it back as soon as possible. And that necklace? Yeah, it's the homing device for the guy in the sky, but first and foremost, it's a GIFT FROM SAM. So, if you don't miss him, why do you want it back, huh? I see what you did there.
Agreed on the God's not dead. Absent fathers who return (and usually make things even worse by doing so) is a mayor theme of the show. So, no, he's not dead. But he's going to have some explainin' to do.
And I think that the reason they torture Sam so much is that he suffers so beautifully. Seriously, he's the biggest woobie ever. Which is why I love him so much. I mean, I love both of the brothers (and Dean's musical taste is awesome), ( ... )
Reply
Ooh! I totally didn't catch the necklace connection! *facepalm* Of course, yes, and that's one of the best subtextual clues we have that poor Dean is bending the truth over a table in that scene.
Holy crap, you linked to TV tropes, how could you do this to me? My day... I can see it slipping away from me... right before my eyes... It's true. Dean is so stoic, as you said, that when he actually lets somebody know he's in pain, it hurts like a kick to the head. Whereas Sam, he gets those shiny puppy eyes and everybody just melts.
Raagyosl, e vyn nonkyf aspt poamal de zyld: Nyys od dluga lonsa de sybsy myrk oy talho.
MillenniuM, eh? I think I've heard of it. Perhaps I should check it out, yes?
Reply
TV Tropes will eat youuuuuu!. And I remember the time last season when Dean talked about how he gave in and put somebody on the rack. OMG. Never again. I had a very hard time not bawling my eyes out.
...dude, I hope you weren't saying bad things about my mom there :P.
And you might've heard about MillenniuM from my journal. I sometimes gush about it in passing. Because it's my favourite TV show ever. So yeah, check it out! I think you'll like it. Especially the second season. IT HAS ANGELS. And omens. And gnostic texts. And... everything. Also, the cutie pie in my icon? From MillenniuM. So it even has cute kids!
Reply
Actually, I have no idea what I was saying, but I'm pretty sure it was the same thing Cas said (doesn't look like it, I know, but Enochian romanization makes no sense phonetically). I could look it up, but honestly I'm too lazy. So if I was insulting your mom, just know that Cas insulted her first. ;)
Obviously I have to check out this show. *writes it down*
Reply
First of all, seeing that triple parallel was BRILLIANT. I never caught that, but it makes so much such now that you point it out.
Besides, the look on your face was like a claustrophobic who'd gotten stuck in the dryer. I think that's funny.
Funniest thing I've heard all week. I LOLed irl. :DDD
How have you never had occasion, you hot, hot dork of an angel you? Are angels blind, seriously?
Welllll, Castiel doesn't look like Misha as an angel. Maybe, as an angel, he is horrifyingly ugly. ;P
RE: Cas manipulating Dean/Cas swearing
I pretty much completely agree with what you said. We've seen lots of examples of Cas not being able to deceive people very well, but especially Dean. Personally, I think Cas has had an attachment to Dean ever since he pulled him out of hell. (Random note: Cas seems really young to me, for some reason. Like he's a baby angel, and isn't as jaded and cynical as all the other angels.) And as for the swearing, it did feel a little off ( ... )
Reply
Maybe, as an angel, [Cas] is horrifyingly ugly.
*stares at you in abject horror* I shall not dignify that conjecture with a serious answer, so please, allow these blasphemous ideas to be run over by sheep.
Holy crap, Cas as a young angel. D'awwww. It sounds right to me. Cas wasn't very high-ranking--I believe Misha said he's probably just a rank or two above "private"--and if he was young, that would make more sense. It would mean that actually he was considered trustworthy and good at what he did, hence being given the job of fishing Dean out of Hell, and he just hasn't had as much time to acquire rank--as opposed to being relatively low-rank because he didn't have the capacity for higher rank, if that makes sense. Furthermore, it would explain why he seems to be more ( ... )
Reply
Reply
I will be so fucking pissed off if the Winchesters actually become the vessels. Epic FAIL. I mean, poor Sam -- IF he ever nominally says the words giving consent out of desperation and hopelessness - its been manipulated and coerced from the beginning to the point that, as you say, there is no 'choice' involved. But that ain't redemption and EK has said this season is about Sam finding redemption so I'm hopeful they will only tease us about that. And further - IF Sam says yes to Lucifer, to me, that's the moment when Dean fails too.
I think Cas talking like Dean is just soooo cute. ;)
Reply
Yeah. I can't help but keep seeing this whole "vessel" thing as a massive metaphor for sex, and so when it comes to things like Sam and Dean being vessels, I just keep on coming to consent issues. And they're only made more obvious by the fact that angels have to get their vessel's consent before they can, uhm, go in. It's obviously like a safe-word, a way to keep the angels from being like the demons. Which is why it bothers me so much when the angels start messing with that, like Zachariah giving Dean stomach cancer and taking Sam's lungs, and everything remotely connected to Lucifer. It's not as obvious an evil as demons possessing people, but to me, it's way worse.
I really, really want to see Sam find redemption. From what spoilers I've seen for coming episodes, though, it seems like they're gonna do more than tease. Well, we'll see on Thursday!
Reply
Well I'm thinking that this week with the AU future is the pay off for the whole 'will he or won't he turn evil' storyline for Sam -- we get to see what happens if he does without him actually doing it. I'm good with the tension for the rest of the season -- how do they avert that happening to Sam?
Lucifer is creepy -- much worse than an overt (and inept) threat from Zach.
I forgot to mention -- my Hubby who watches with me although not with the religious ferver I have, of course, thinks that Lindsay is God. If so, I gotta vote no on the sex --LOL!!!
Reply
And yes. Lucifer is way, way creepier than Zach, because he's so passive. He almost sounds sympathetic, at first. He has a way of worming in to your mind.
You mentioned that on your picspam post, which I still haven't commented on! (Bad Piper, bad!) I think it's a fascinating idea, and if Lindsay were God, I think that I would be cool with that. Heaven knows I think she's perfect anyway. They really did film a Sam/Lindsay sex scene, apparently. And I gotta say... Characters having sex with God is a place I have already gone. Many times. *is properly ashamed* Hey, there are Biblical precedents--admittedly they are metaphorical, but they're there! Check out the book of Hosea
Reply
Cas says, "I've never had the occasion," as his excuse for still being a virgin. Which brings the obvious question: How have you never had occasion, you hot, hot dork of an angel you? Are angels blind, seriously? Angels have sex? Like, it's possible? They aren't just "Ken dolls", like Dean said?This is what threw me, too. It just doesn't make sense. If angels can't have sex, why would Castiel say that and why would he be embarrassed about it? It only makes sense to be embarrassed about one's own virginity in a culture that denigrates it as shameful, whereas if angels were all chaste, it would simply be the norm. On the other hand, if angels do have sex, are we supposed to believe that Castiel has seriously existed how many thousands of years without getting laid? I've heard a few theories to explain it; it's not that angels value sex so much as he knows that Dean does and he wants Dean to think ( ... )
Reply
In any case, from now on I am assuming that angels can indeed have sex, it's just that they don't. Probably. Perhaps they don't have sex drives the way we do. A Vulcan-type thing, maybe? (Oh gosh, Castiel+Pon Farr=sdfk'jlsdahahahaa. Oh, my mind, where are you getting all this crack from lately?)
Anyway, crack aside. No, I haven't read it--and from a look through her archives, I'm not sure I know which one you're talking about. I'm interested though, so would you mind linking me to it?
Reply
I think it's probably that angels can't have sex in their true forms, but in a human body, why not?
Yep, it's here. :D
Reply
Leave a comment