rage the first
Where it took place: on the blog of DeviousDiva
What set me off: NiceGuy's sexist and chauvinistic attitude, his misuse of language, and poor arguing technique
The original post--I liked this post, it's in the comments that I get pissed off.
Blog against Sexism
May 12, 2006
Posted by deviousdiva
I want to change the world.
Not because I want to be hero or to go down in history or to be the next [insert your favorite activist here]
I want to change the world because the one I live in doesn’t work.
It doesn’t work because it’s a man’s world and I cannot live the life I want in it.
It has been constructed and contained by men.
And for my whole life I will have to try and operate within it.
This is the world I live in
I will be given dolls and toy ovens and irons and vacuum cleaners in preparation for when I become someone’s wife.
I will not be encouraged to run wild and shout and take up lots of space.
I will be praised for being quiet and not talking too much.
I will learn that it is not ladylike to get angry or to raise my voice.
I will be told that nice girls keep their legs closed even though most images I will see will be of women with their legs open.
I will be bombarded with images of women skinny, scantily clad women, painted and packaged and held up as something to aspire to.
I will begin to fear men and their loud voices and their power.
I will learn to swallow my hurt and pain so as not to appear bitchy or uppity.
I will try and hold on to my much talked about and scrutinised virginity at the same time as being pressured to give it up or have it taken by force.
I will try and be sexually attractive so that someone will want me but be called a slut if I succeed.
I will not be encouraged to go onto higher education or to have a career. If I get there, it will be despite the obstacles put in my way.
If I manage to get a job I will not be paid the same wage as a man. It will probably be low-skilled, part-time or in the “caring professions” or in a supportive position.
I will be encouraged endlessly to find a husband and to settle down and to have children.
If I get pregnant at a time when I do not want to be, I will have to hope I live in a place where I can have a safe abortion and that I can get the permission to have one.
If I am sexually abused or raped I will be on trial. I will have to prove that it was not my fault. It was my fault though, if I was wearing a g-string, or if I was on a date, or if I was married to the rapist, or if I had said yes on a previous occasion, or if I had more than one partner or any number of other wrongdoings on my part.
Once I decide to have children, my choices over the birth will be limited depending on where I happen to live.
I will be at risk of induction or surgery if my labour doesn’t fit into the usual schedule that doctors have decided is normal.
After birth, I will be pretty much on my own in raising children, expected to give up work and dedicate the rest of my existence to my children.
It will not be understood if I want something more from my life.
It will be difficult, if not impossible, to continue my career if I have managed to start on one.
I will be made to feel guilty if I am not the perfect mum and the best housewife.
I will still have to struggle to be sexually attractive, thin and available.
I will also have to stay young but I will be old before men ever are.
There will be pressure to inject stuff into my lips, chop off bits of my bottom, suck fat out of my thighs, reshape my breasts or even mutilate my vagina to make it more attractive because it really is a rather nasty part of my body isn’t it?
I will shave off all unwanted hair that makes me look like a woman rather than a girl.
My sexuality will be scrutinised, studied and judged by men.
I will only be a lesbian if it is entertainment for men otherwise I am just sad because I can’t get a man.
I will be a bitch if I blame men for anything at all even though this is the world they created.
I will be judged as successful if I fit the model that men have set as the ideal way for a woman to be.
It is highly unlikely that I will have any part in running the country.
I will have little or no part in making or amending laws.
I will probably not be heading a huge corporations or any business for that matter.
I will play only a minor role in the media, if at all.
And then, at a certain age, I will disappear .
Once I have passed my sell-by date, somewhere around 40 or perhaps younger?
While my male counterparts are maturing, I will be old.
Washed up. Finished.
And I am one of the fortunate women.
I was not killed at birth because I was the wrong sex.
I was not mutilated genitally or otherwise.
I was not beaten or killed for being raped.
I was not forced into marriage or prostitution.
I have not become involved in pornography as a work option.
And on and on and on and on and on.
I do not need surveys, studies and statistics to know that women are held down and held back their entire lives.
I only have to listen to myself, talk to other women or read what other women write.
This is how women live.
And I do not want to live in this world.
And half the planet does not want to live in this world.
Every day should be Women’s Day until sexism ends.
Every day should be Women’s Day until we are in control equally with men.
We are what the world needs.
Comments»
1. Laura - December 21, 2006
I came here via I’m Not A Feminist, But who has you linked. I found the post going back through your archived Important Posts. [/background info]
I just wanted to say that I agree with you 100%: I don’t want to live in this world either, and I get so angry when men try and say that it’s not their fault that these conditions exist for women. Except that they do have a responsibility for this situation, because they’re the ones who have made the world like this.
Thank you for expressing this in writing, and making it open to the world.
2. Nice Guy - December 21, 2006 (And here's where I start to get pissed off.)
Laura,
What did I do specifically as a man?
I think it’s chauvinistic of some Feminazis to paint all men with a broad stroke as being some imperious evil beings. Actually, you think it's misanthropic, not chauvinistic. Use the language right, you tool.
Most women in this world appreciate the contributions of men. Don’t forget, Jesus Christ was a man (or did you forget).
Who is being an extremist now?
Excuse me?? Extremist my fat pasty ass, you moron! And if you don't know most women in this world, don't you DARE try to speak for them. Jackass.
3. Laura - December 24, 2006
Nice Guy,
Perhaps I should have clarified. Not all men have made the world a place that I don’t particularly care to live in. I should have clarified, and I apologize that I did not.
It pisses me off so much that I apologized here--he didn't do anything to deserve an apology, and I didn't do anything worthy of apologizing for.
Not all men are evil. I know quite a few who are exemplary human beings. And not all women are free of guilt, either. I never meant to imply that. But because men are generally the ones with religious, political, social, and economic power, men do have a responsibility for why the world is as it is.
I did not, in fact, forget that Jesus was a man, although it is extremely presumptuous of you to think that because I exist, I am a Christian. I am, in fact, NOT Christian. I pointedly did not mention religion in my original comment. That’s actually neither here nor there.
HOWEVER. DO NOT CALL ME A FEMINAZI.
Point one. I have never been a member of any political party other than the US Democratic party. Ergo, I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of the “National Socialist German Workers Party” or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (N.S.A.D.P). (aka the NAZI party). Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
Point two. As a feminist, I work for equal rights. Therefore, I am not engaged in eliminating the voices of (among others) anti-socialist, homosexual, Jewish, Romany, mentally disabled, physically disabled, elderly, or other non-”Aryan” people from society. Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
Point three. While I am of German ancestry, I’m not old enough to have been alive during WWII and the years preceding it. Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
Subpoint of Point three. I have never worked for any national government, nor have I ever been a member of the armed forces. Therefore, I have never been associated with the Nazi government, and am still not a Nazi, nor am I a feminazi.
Point four. In my quest to achieve equal rights for myself and all women, I have never been engaged in torturing, starving, imprisoning, disenfranchising, dehumanizing, and murdering millions of people in Europe. Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
By calling me a feminazi, you not only degrade and insult me, you insult feminists, WWII veterans and anyone who lived through that war, and surviving and deceased victims of the Nazis’ atrocities. CEASE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY.
**Note: This is cut and pasted from a rage posted by me (druidspell) in the feminist_rage community November 29. As I was the author, I have permission to use it wherever I choose. If anyone else wants to use it, comment on the entry at feminist_rage and ask permission.**
(DeviousDiva, I am terribly sorry to comment in this fashion on your blog. If it is out of line, please delete my comment. I do not mean to bring stress into your life. I merely wanted to thank you and congratulate you for clearly and concisely articulating some of the things that make me not want to live in this world.)
4. Nice Guy - December 26, 2006
Laura,
I said that “Some Feminazis to…..” I DID NOT say that you were a feminazi.
Also, feminazi is a term used by popular, conservative, talk radio host Rush Limbaugh in the USA. It is not associated with Nazis. It simply refers to a feminist who goes beyond the norm with her views.
5. Laura - December 27, 2006
Nice Guy,
When you posted that in response to my comment, your implication was that I was a feminazi. You did not outright say it, but just because you sneer it behind your hand instead of calling me a feminazi to my face does not mean that wasn’t what you meant.
Also, yes, I am aware that Rush Limbaugh (a man with an admitted drug addiction, so I really question his popularity to the true conservatives) coined the term “feminazi.” And because he tacked “nazi” onto a word, he DID, in fact, associate feminists with Nazis. His use of the word does not make it an acceptable term. It is offensive, rude, and vile, and it doesn’t matter who is the one to say it.
Your use of the term makes me suspect that you are not, in fact, a “nice guy.” Because nice guys, and in fact, decent human beings, do not call other people Nazi or a derivative thereof.
“Nice guys” (read: decent human beings), when it has been pointed out that what they have said is offensive, APOLOGIZE for causing offense. They do not try to cover their tracks by making the offended party appear oversensitive and ignorant. They do not try to shift blame onto someone else. They accept responsibility for what they’ve said, and then they apologize, and then they move on.
Blatant misogyny, ignorance, and inability to argue. Don't try and intimidate me and invalidate me by calling me an extremist, or a feminazi, or by making me feel guilty by bringing religion into it. I'm not an extremist, a Nazi, or a member of any organized religion. You end up looking like an asshat, and don't think I won't call you on it.
What set me off: NiceGuy's sexist and chauvinistic attitude, his misuse of language, and poor arguing technique
The original post--I liked this post, it's in the comments that I get pissed off.
Blog against Sexism
May 12, 2006
Posted by deviousdiva
I want to change the world.
Not because I want to be hero or to go down in history or to be the next [insert your favorite activist here]
I want to change the world because the one I live in doesn’t work.
It doesn’t work because it’s a man’s world and I cannot live the life I want in it.
It has been constructed and contained by men.
And for my whole life I will have to try and operate within it.
This is the world I live in
I will be given dolls and toy ovens and irons and vacuum cleaners in preparation for when I become someone’s wife.
I will not be encouraged to run wild and shout and take up lots of space.
I will be praised for being quiet and not talking too much.
I will learn that it is not ladylike to get angry or to raise my voice.
I will be told that nice girls keep their legs closed even though most images I will see will be of women with their legs open.
I will be bombarded with images of women skinny, scantily clad women, painted and packaged and held up as something to aspire to.
I will begin to fear men and their loud voices and their power.
I will learn to swallow my hurt and pain so as not to appear bitchy or uppity.
I will try and hold on to my much talked about and scrutinised virginity at the same time as being pressured to give it up or have it taken by force.
I will try and be sexually attractive so that someone will want me but be called a slut if I succeed.
I will not be encouraged to go onto higher education or to have a career. If I get there, it will be despite the obstacles put in my way.
If I manage to get a job I will not be paid the same wage as a man. It will probably be low-skilled, part-time or in the “caring professions” or in a supportive position.
I will be encouraged endlessly to find a husband and to settle down and to have children.
If I get pregnant at a time when I do not want to be, I will have to hope I live in a place where I can have a safe abortion and that I can get the permission to have one.
If I am sexually abused or raped I will be on trial. I will have to prove that it was not my fault. It was my fault though, if I was wearing a g-string, or if I was on a date, or if I was married to the rapist, or if I had said yes on a previous occasion, or if I had more than one partner or any number of other wrongdoings on my part.
Once I decide to have children, my choices over the birth will be limited depending on where I happen to live.
I will be at risk of induction or surgery if my labour doesn’t fit into the usual schedule that doctors have decided is normal.
After birth, I will be pretty much on my own in raising children, expected to give up work and dedicate the rest of my existence to my children.
It will not be understood if I want something more from my life.
It will be difficult, if not impossible, to continue my career if I have managed to start on one.
I will be made to feel guilty if I am not the perfect mum and the best housewife.
I will still have to struggle to be sexually attractive, thin and available.
I will also have to stay young but I will be old before men ever are.
There will be pressure to inject stuff into my lips, chop off bits of my bottom, suck fat out of my thighs, reshape my breasts or even mutilate my vagina to make it more attractive because it really is a rather nasty part of my body isn’t it?
I will shave off all unwanted hair that makes me look like a woman rather than a girl.
My sexuality will be scrutinised, studied and judged by men.
I will only be a lesbian if it is entertainment for men otherwise I am just sad because I can’t get a man.
I will be a bitch if I blame men for anything at all even though this is the world they created.
I will be judged as successful if I fit the model that men have set as the ideal way for a woman to be.
It is highly unlikely that I will have any part in running the country.
I will have little or no part in making or amending laws.
I will probably not be heading a huge corporations or any business for that matter.
I will play only a minor role in the media, if at all.
And then, at a certain age, I will disappear .
Once I have passed my sell-by date, somewhere around 40 or perhaps younger?
While my male counterparts are maturing, I will be old.
Washed up. Finished.
And I am one of the fortunate women.
I was not killed at birth because I was the wrong sex.
I was not mutilated genitally or otherwise.
I was not beaten or killed for being raped.
I was not forced into marriage or prostitution.
I have not become involved in pornography as a work option.
And on and on and on and on and on.
I do not need surveys, studies and statistics to know that women are held down and held back their entire lives.
I only have to listen to myself, talk to other women or read what other women write.
This is how women live.
And I do not want to live in this world.
And half the planet does not want to live in this world.
Every day should be Women’s Day until sexism ends.
Every day should be Women’s Day until we are in control equally with men.
We are what the world needs.
Comments»
1. Laura - December 21, 2006
I came here via I’m Not A Feminist, But who has you linked. I found the post going back through your archived Important Posts. [/background info]
I just wanted to say that I agree with you 100%: I don’t want to live in this world either, and I get so angry when men try and say that it’s not their fault that these conditions exist for women. Except that they do have a responsibility for this situation, because they’re the ones who have made the world like this.
Thank you for expressing this in writing, and making it open to the world.
2. Nice Guy - December 21, 2006 (And here's where I start to get pissed off.)
Laura,
What did I do specifically as a man?
I think it’s chauvinistic of some Feminazis to paint all men with a broad stroke as being some imperious evil beings. Actually, you think it's misanthropic, not chauvinistic. Use the language right, you tool.
Most women in this world appreciate the contributions of men. Don’t forget, Jesus Christ was a man (or did you forget).
Who is being an extremist now?
Excuse me?? Extremist my fat pasty ass, you moron! And if you don't know most women in this world, don't you DARE try to speak for them. Jackass.
3. Laura - December 24, 2006
Nice Guy,
Perhaps I should have clarified. Not all men have made the world a place that I don’t particularly care to live in. I should have clarified, and I apologize that I did not.
It pisses me off so much that I apologized here--he didn't do anything to deserve an apology, and I didn't do anything worthy of apologizing for.
Not all men are evil. I know quite a few who are exemplary human beings. And not all women are free of guilt, either. I never meant to imply that. But because men are generally the ones with religious, political, social, and economic power, men do have a responsibility for why the world is as it is.
I did not, in fact, forget that Jesus was a man, although it is extremely presumptuous of you to think that because I exist, I am a Christian. I am, in fact, NOT Christian. I pointedly did not mention religion in my original comment. That’s actually neither here nor there.
HOWEVER. DO NOT CALL ME A FEMINAZI.
Point one. I have never been a member of any political party other than the US Democratic party. Ergo, I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of the “National Socialist German Workers Party” or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (N.S.A.D.P). (aka the NAZI party). Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
Point two. As a feminist, I work for equal rights. Therefore, I am not engaged in eliminating the voices of (among others) anti-socialist, homosexual, Jewish, Romany, mentally disabled, physically disabled, elderly, or other non-”Aryan” people from society. Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
Point three. While I am of German ancestry, I’m not old enough to have been alive during WWII and the years preceding it. Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
Subpoint of Point three. I have never worked for any national government, nor have I ever been a member of the armed forces. Therefore, I have never been associated with the Nazi government, and am still not a Nazi, nor am I a feminazi.
Point four. In my quest to achieve equal rights for myself and all women, I have never been engaged in torturing, starving, imprisoning, disenfranchising, dehumanizing, and murdering millions of people in Europe. Therefore, I am not a Nazi, and am therefore not a feminazi.
By calling me a feminazi, you not only degrade and insult me, you insult feminists, WWII veterans and anyone who lived through that war, and surviving and deceased victims of the Nazis’ atrocities. CEASE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY.
**Note: This is cut and pasted from a rage posted by me (druidspell) in the feminist_rage community November 29. As I was the author, I have permission to use it wherever I choose. If anyone else wants to use it, comment on the entry at feminist_rage and ask permission.**
(DeviousDiva, I am terribly sorry to comment in this fashion on your blog. If it is out of line, please delete my comment. I do not mean to bring stress into your life. I merely wanted to thank you and congratulate you for clearly and concisely articulating some of the things that make me not want to live in this world.)
4. Nice Guy - December 26, 2006
Laura,
I said that “Some Feminazis to…..” I DID NOT say that you were a feminazi.
Also, feminazi is a term used by popular, conservative, talk radio host Rush Limbaugh in the USA. It is not associated with Nazis. It simply refers to a feminist who goes beyond the norm with her views.
5. Laura - December 27, 2006
Nice Guy,
When you posted that in response to my comment, your implication was that I was a feminazi. You did not outright say it, but just because you sneer it behind your hand instead of calling me a feminazi to my face does not mean that wasn’t what you meant.
Also, yes, I am aware that Rush Limbaugh (a man with an admitted drug addiction, so I really question his popularity to the true conservatives) coined the term “feminazi.” And because he tacked “nazi” onto a word, he DID, in fact, associate feminists with Nazis. His use of the word does not make it an acceptable term. It is offensive, rude, and vile, and it doesn’t matter who is the one to say it.
Your use of the term makes me suspect that you are not, in fact, a “nice guy.” Because nice guys, and in fact, decent human beings, do not call other people Nazi or a derivative thereof.
“Nice guys” (read: decent human beings), when it has been pointed out that what they have said is offensive, APOLOGIZE for causing offense. They do not try to cover their tracks by making the offended party appear oversensitive and ignorant. They do not try to shift blame onto someone else. They accept responsibility for what they’ve said, and then they apologize, and then they move on.
Blatant misogyny, ignorance, and inability to argue. Don't try and intimidate me and invalidate me by calling me an extremist, or a feminazi, or by making me feel guilty by bringing religion into it. I'm not an extremist, a Nazi, or a member of any organized religion. You end up looking like an asshat, and don't think I won't call you on it.