Comments | paperclippy: a quote that explains exactly how I feel

paperclippy

a quote that explains exactly how I feel

Nov 05, 2008 12:12

From a commenter on this metafilter thread (thanks quigonejinn), emphasis mine.

I wish we could separate religious marriage from legal unions. Give people all the rights and benefits of marriage, but make the religious aspect something akin to baptism or confirmation: a ritual that has no ramifications outside that religion. Then people could discriminate ( Read more... )

Comments 12

omega697 November 5 2008, 17:41:50 UTC

I agree 100%, I am totally for delegalizing marriage.

paperclippy November 5 2008, 17:48:22 UTC

My only request is that we be able to call the legal union "marriage" and make the religions pick some other word. That way we wouldn't be at odds with other English-speaking countries, like, say, Canada.

omega697 November 5 2008, 17:55:42 UTC

But that's the problem that the religious right has with it, the name. So screw 'em, they can have the name, and we'll just call it a civil union (officially).

sillygoosegirl November 5 2008, 18:51:55 UTC

The 1st Amendment protects the rights of all groups to use the term marriage. There will be no "making" the religions choose another word, they will just have that *option* if they want to distinguish themselves from everybody else. I think it's important to remember that, along with remembering that the First Amendment protects the rights of all religions to perform marriages however they see fit, without the government favoring some over others. And sooner or later the Supreme Court is going to pull its heads out of its asses and make people honor what the Constitution has to say on this issue.

camlost November 5 2008, 17:46:39 UTC

We have a winner!

zixi November 5 2008, 18:38:17 UTC

Yep. I've been saying that for years. Have the government legislate Civil Unions where two consenting adults tell the state they would like the legal privileges of being responsible for each other and considered a household.

And then the religions can choose to marry whoever they want however they want.

Gets rid of the knee-jerk reaction to marriage that's bullshit anyway (which historical type of marriage do we make sacred? The one that allows polygamy? the ones where we marry 13 year-old girls to older men? the ones that make wives property?)

kushali November 5 2008, 19:41:42 UTC

The problem is that baptism and confirmation don't bestow civil rights along with their religious implications. Marriage does.

I think the real solution is getting rid of all the civil benefits of marriage. I don't really understand why we have them in the first place.

sillygoosegirl November 5 2008, 19:53:56 UTC

Baptism and confirmation don't bestow civil rights, but there are other similar things that do, like becoming a member of the clergy...

sorry, I ramble a lot... eepmirva November 5 2008, 22:30:43 UTC

I'm all for separating religious marriage from legal unions ( ... )

Re: sorry, I ramble a lot... ext_68953 November 6 2008, 13:39:52 UTC

Ditto on separation.

I'd rather do without the tax filing and health benefits entirely than have my marriage declared invalid until I file paperwork with a secular state. My marriage became valid the moment we made our vows in front of the minister and God, period. What does that have to do with the government? They don't actually make the marriages (save the judges who officiate in civil ceremonies), and they shouldn't be the ones to decide which marriages can be filed.

Re: sorry, I ramble a lot... paperclippy November 6 2008, 14:00:19 UTC

I love hearing from everyone about this topic, it's really interesting to see how coming from different places we can all end up at the same place. That is to say, I am in favor of separating religious marriages from civil marriages, but to me, as an atheist, my "marriage" became valid the moment we signed our civil marriage license (and our ketubah, which was completely non-religious). Having a rabbi officiate was just extra. Maybe that's why I am uncomfortable with removing the word "marriage" from civil unions -- since I am not really a member of any religion, it feels like my marriage wouldn't count as much if it was called something else ( ... )

Re: sorry, I ramble a lot... paperclippy November 6 2008, 14:02:38 UTC

Which is why I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with legalizing same sex marriage - if your religion says that people of the same gender can't get married than I'm assuming your religion wouldn't marry people of the same gender so, by your prespective, no marriages are taking place.

Exactly! Plus like you said, religious officials can refuse to marry couples for any reason they like. We had to be interviewed by our rabbi before he would agree to marry us. Rabbis refuse to marry interfaith couples all the time, Catholic priests refuse to marry non-Catholics, etc. If someone wanted to they could form a religion that refused to marry people with brown hair and that would be totally legal.