J'ai un question

[pet_the_zebu]

Ok, I totally have a question for those of you who have seen The Dark Knight, under the cut:

All right, so, Harvey Dent...is he dead? Cause I've just seen the movie twice, and I could SWEAR that Batman was taking the fall for the shit he did because he wanted Dent to continue to be a white knight for Gotham and that the event Gordon was at, with the

Comments

[medouze]

He is dead. Batman didn't really kill him, he just did not save him. He saved the child in danger so I technically don't think he killed him, Dent 'fell' more or less on his own accord by doing what he'd been doing

[pet_the_zebu]

I hope he's not. He was fantastic

[indaleciogod]

Joker was fucking with him; he gave Batman the wrong address. Every single time Joker acted, from the first scene until that one, it was more than it seemed. I think it, at that point, was implied and thought that the viewer would make the assumption. At the end of the movie, I was surprised that neither of the ships exploded--I figured that they would decide upon blowing up the other ship and end up blowing themselves up, paralleling the Harvey/Rachel situation

[pet_the_zebu]

To a point I agree with some of your criticisms. If they initially planned on keeping Two Face dead I can see why they'd have him go through the changes so early, but if they bring him back (and I hope they do, I <3d him), then I guess they should have waited...

I totally agree about Scarecrow. That was one of my issues with the movie. WTF? Scarecrow was awesome and he's defeated in three seconds in this one? Why bring him back at all in this film? Jeez.

I guess the consensus is that he gave each the wrong addresses. I also thought about the Ferry thing, like "If they press it will their own boat explode?" But with saving Dent and Rachel...Batman doesn't seem surprised to show up with Harvey there instead of her.

But, also, what about when Gordon tells Dent (at the end) that the "three of us" decided to save him? Gordon, Batman, and who else...? Or Gordon and...who else?

[ffiferoo]

I think the end of the movie was pretty conclusive on Dent being dead, though I think that if the production had known that Heath Ledger was going to die, they may not have killed him off (as Two Face would have been a really convenient villain for the next movie). I was pretty disappointed that they killed him off, actually, since he was only Two Face for like, an hour, and they really just eliminated a perfectly good Batman villain that they could have used later. I guess his backstory in the movie (especially involving Rachel's death) was more conducive to him dying, but I still thought it was a bit silly

[pet_the_zebu]

I don't want him to be dead. He was awesome and he would be good for the next movie. :( Boo

[ffiferoo]

I thought maybe the Joker gave them the wrong addresses, but that does seem counterproductive to what he wanted them to do, plus Batman didn't seem all that surprised when he got there and saved Dent. I would think he'd have said something about it at some point if he was tricked out of saving Rachel. I just went and looked around a little, and it does seem to be the case from what people are saying that the Joker switched the addresses on them.

The only third person I can think of who would have been Rachel, though obviously she didn't have a say in the matter at the time. I don't actually remember that part, so I'd have to see it again to figure it out.

[indaleciogod]

But the Joker was never straightforward! After Rachel died, and Batman found Joker's location, they saw Joker's goons with guns to hostages' heads. Gordon wanted to go in immediately because of his sense of loyalty to Harvey, but Batman begs him to wait because he's smart enough to know there's more to the game that Joker is playing--he knows there's more because of what happened with Rachel. That was him acknowledging that the Joker switched the addresses on him

[aishitara]

Okay, so skipping the fact that because of a prank fire drill I missed the (surely) epic moment that made Harvey Dent into Two-Face, I wonder greatly what they're going to do with his character now that Heath Ledger is gone. I think the original plan was for the Joker to be Batman's nemesis in the final installment of the trilogy, but because the actor is dead they can't exactly follow that tack (and seriously, who the fuck could they get to replace him? The man was BRILLIANT in this role). I think the original plan was to kill off Two-Face, but perhaps they will rethink it and say that he "miraculously recovered" or something insane like that so that there's a recognizable, legitimate villain for the last movie.

Which, by the way, can't come out soon enough.

Or, more specifically, I can't get back into a theatre fast enough to see this movie again. ^.^;;;

[pet_the_zebu]

Agreed. It would be time #3 but I'd do it. I'd see it one zillion times! Anyway...
I hope they bring him back. I loved him.

[shellsi]

even thought i was heinously angry that they offed Harvey, i think bringing him back would be kind of gay, since he was definitely dead.
they're just going to have to work something out.

[indaleciogod]

I think they should, in one of the movies, have Joker get broken out of jail, but only reference it or makeup someone to look like him (but definitely NOT have a speaking role, because it would be an insult to memory), and then have the last movie end the same way in which the first did. So, basically, I think that Batman should be called and informed that the calling card has been left after another crime was committed. I think it'd be a good way for the series to conclude considering how often they reference Batman as being a symbol or a legend.