meta: what's the deal with this pop life, yo--playacting the gay
Someone on my flist posted a really interesting post this morning re: emo boybanders playing gay, and as per my usual, I've now thought WAY too much about it in both a personal and political sense, so I have A Theory. We'll call this Andrea's Theory on Faking the Gay. Or something. In honor of Lance Bass and his new "making the (gay) band" show.
1) There are two questions to this, and I'm editing this late in the game by request, so I'm not sure how much sense this post will make at this point BUT... let's suppose that straight emo boybanders "played gay" or participated in some "stage gay" at their concerts. How does that make me feel personally and politically?
Okay, I'm willing to make myself really incredibly unpopular here by saying: it offends me. It offends me because I AM queer, and a lot of actual queer people go through a whole lot of heartbreak and trauma just for being who they are, while these guys get to PLAY at it without taking on any of the risk. In one way, how empowering for them! In another, bigger, more personal way--how insulting, to use and exploit queerness to garner fans and popularity and money, to project an image of glam rock sensibilities without actually having to "make love in gay style," as my favorite fictional bisexual glam rocker would say. Oh, Curt Wild, I love you.
Anyway, so yes, breaking gender barriers is one thing, but exploiting queerness for your own sake is degrading and insulting, in my opinion. There are ways to break gender barriers WITHOUT exploiting a minority group: ie Prince, Bowie, *cough* JC. And I think maybe partly it's because a lot of emo boybanders are so young that they don't quite understand the difference between gender and queerness, and because they're not (admittedly) queer, they don't understand how playing at being queer could be offensive.
Of course, I'm not the kind of person who allows that ignorance of a subject or its connotations lets someone off the hook, so. Yeah. It offends me.
If, for example, these boys went on stage and played at being black--imagine the outrage then. To me, it's the same thing. It's like performing in black face. Offensive and disgusting and unacceptable, because it inherently mocks and exploits a minority group. As neverneverfic pointed out: "But they are treating queerness like a performance, like a mantle you can wear and then take off whenever you want. It's safe for them because they have girlfriends. It's not about actual desire but instead performance. And that's fucked up. I think if any of them were actually gay they wouldn't be playing it so gay on stage and that's a problem."
Yes, and this is what bugs me. Because for a lot of people, being gay isn't a PERFORMANCE. It's who you are and it's not something you can just discard once the music stops. To me, it's the same as, again, performing in black face. It's offensive, period, and it's not doing anything to help promote understanding and acceptance of real-life queer people. It maybe promotes understanding and acceptance of straight boys pretending to be gay... and that gets us exactly no where. We in fandom already do this quite enough, and we can see how very little political impact we have as a group.
2) And secondly, how would that make someone like Lance Bass, who spent years hiding his sexual orientation, feel, to see people playing at being gay on stage?
It's so hard to wrap my brain around this question without knowing Lance on a personal level, but if it were me (sort of IS me...), I would feel... angry that they're basically mocking (whether meaning to or not) a situation that was very real and hard for him to go through; jealous that they can get away with it; and ANGRY that they can get away with it because they're straight. A gay man can't (or is made to feel like he can't) be gay in a boyband on stage, but straight men CAN. And that says something about our society--that it's okay for straight men to play at being gay as long as they have relationships with girls and aren't *actually* gay, but it's not okay for a gay man to be himself and be honest.
In the end, I should say, yeah, I don't know a whole lot about the personal lives of these guys except that none of them are openly queer ie having queer relationships, and Pete Wentz, just for example, has said over and over that he'll make out with anyone but he's not going to be touching any dicks. So for him, at least, to play at being queer while denying all ACTUAL queerness--yeah, that bugs me. But soooo many things about Wentz bother me that this bit is really just another item on the list.
I go back and forth on the subject, really. Of course, choosing a heterosexual relationship doesn't *negate* queerness, but on the other hand, none of them are willing to come out and say, "Yes, I'm pretty gay" or even "I'm sort of bi", and until they do (and that's a BIG 'until' because I don't think they will...) I will continue to find it offensive that they're playing at being queer.
It's a personal issue for me. I want kids to have queer role models and to see that people from all walks of life, including guys in their favorite bands, are queer, too. But I want those guys to ACTUALLY be queer if they're going to play at it, otherwise it just feels really exploitative, whether it's for money or fans or simply their own amusement. I don't pretend to know why they're doing it, but I know how it makes me feel, and that is: not good. Exploited, and a little angry. I'm sure they don't mean for it to incite these emotions, but we're working towards equality and anti-discrimination laws for queers, and this play acting just feels like a slap in the face of that. It feels like rich, white, straight boys playing at being a minority, and it's just, yeah. Gross, in my opinion.
Only my opinion, of course, and the way I feel about it. I know I'm one of the few fandomers who think this way, and most of us are delighted by all the gay play. And there's nothing wrong with that; I'm not trying to imply that you're some horrible, anti-queer person if you enjoy the gay play. Not at all. I recognize that my views are my own, and nothing more, and that I have rather more radical views than even the average liberal person. Even than the average liberal queer person, probably. I'm offended by completely different things than other people and I'm extremely sensitive about queer issues, just so you know where I'm coming from and that this isn't meant to be a judgement on anyone OR on bandom (because by all means, PLEASE, enjoy the gay, I know I wish I could!); it's just the way I feel, personally and politically. I recognize that my opinion means exactly zero, and anyone is free to tell me to fuck off.
ETA: Just FYI, I have edited this post very late in the game to remove my friend's name and quotes and link. I fucked up really badly in that I didn't realize her post was locked. I'm not going to make excuses for myself. Suffice it to say, I am incredibly stupid and a fuckup for not realizing she'd locked the post, and that I never should've quoted her. I didn't mean for my thoughts, which are mine and mine alone, to be attributed to her or reflect on her in any way. She and I have very different opinions on the subject, and all she was doing was asking the question. I'm the one with the wacked out opinion, NOT her.
Also, I am leaving on a work retreat tomorrow, so I won't be able to respond to a lot of your comments until I get back, hopefully in a better state of mind. Thanks for discussing this with me, and if you choose to continue discussing amongst yourselves, please keep it cool-headed and logical, even though I know this is an emotional subject for everyone (myself included.)
ETA2: In case this is still going on... here's an addition to address some of the questions people have been asking me:
1) Slash--isn't it the same?: I talked about this somewhere in that post, but man, I wouldn't want to troll through those comments to find it myself, so I won't ask you to do it! I've struggled with slash in the past a LOT, and I've written meta on it (which no one cared about, haha!). It doesn't feel like exploitation to me (because these are fictional characters, or real people that we're creating INTO fictional characters) but it does feel like fetishism. It feels like when men want to watch "lesbian" porn. Of course, not all slash has sex in it, but you get the idea.
What I finally decided after talking to a lot of gay men was that if they don't care, then I shouldn't be too worried. I think it is a kind of fetish for some of us (the object of desire being indirect to the person doing the desiring, if that makes sense), but in the same way that guys watching lesbian porn is. I don't think it's necessarily awesome or anything, but it's not hurting anyone and we're not getting money from it.
When straight people (and let's assume they're straight, for the sake of argument, and because that was the scenario I was going with) simulate gay sex acts on stage in a performance at which they are making money, whether they're doing it for titillation (worst case) or to promote gay acceptance (best case), it does hurt someone--it hurts me, and people like me. It feels disrespectful of queer people and the struggles they've gone through, when someone can play at their sexuality, get paid to do it, and then shrug that off and go home with their wives. (and yes, some of them are married).
2) That whole "blackface" thing. I don't think my analogy is extreme, but then, I tend to think that people shouldn't really say, "My oppression is worse than yours." I used that analogy to bring home a point, which was that people, especially people who are already accepting of homosexuality and gay rights, seem to downplay the oppression that homosexuals DO face in the world today. But everyone understands what I mean when I say "blackface". So I said, "If Ryan Ross came out in blackface, regardless of why he was doing it, it would be offensive." I ask--why is it then NOT offensive for a straight person to put on a "gayface"?
Al Jolson famously wore blackface in The Jazz Singer, not to mock black people, but to connect with that inner pain of oppression. And yet when I watch it? I am still incredibly offended. For me (and I emphasize for ME, because not everyone feels this way and I don't expect them to!), gayface is the same thing--it causes the same reaction in me.
1) There are two questions to this, and I'm editing this late in the game by request, so I'm not sure how much sense this post will make at this point BUT... let's suppose that straight emo boybanders "played gay" or participated in some "stage gay" at their concerts. How does that make me feel personally and politically?
Okay, I'm willing to make myself really incredibly unpopular here by saying: it offends me. It offends me because I AM queer, and a lot of actual queer people go through a whole lot of heartbreak and trauma just for being who they are, while these guys get to PLAY at it without taking on any of the risk. In one way, how empowering for them! In another, bigger, more personal way--how insulting, to use and exploit queerness to garner fans and popularity and money, to project an image of glam rock sensibilities without actually having to "make love in gay style," as my favorite fictional bisexual glam rocker would say. Oh, Curt Wild, I love you.
Anyway, so yes, breaking gender barriers is one thing, but exploiting queerness for your own sake is degrading and insulting, in my opinion. There are ways to break gender barriers WITHOUT exploiting a minority group: ie Prince, Bowie, *cough* JC. And I think maybe partly it's because a lot of emo boybanders are so young that they don't quite understand the difference between gender and queerness, and because they're not (admittedly) queer, they don't understand how playing at being queer could be offensive.
Of course, I'm not the kind of person who allows that ignorance of a subject or its connotations lets someone off the hook, so. Yeah. It offends me.
If, for example, these boys went on stage and played at being black--imagine the outrage then. To me, it's the same thing. It's like performing in black face. Offensive and disgusting and unacceptable, because it inherently mocks and exploits a minority group. As neverneverfic pointed out: "But they are treating queerness like a performance, like a mantle you can wear and then take off whenever you want. It's safe for them because they have girlfriends. It's not about actual desire but instead performance. And that's fucked up. I think if any of them were actually gay they wouldn't be playing it so gay on stage and that's a problem."
Yes, and this is what bugs me. Because for a lot of people, being gay isn't a PERFORMANCE. It's who you are and it's not something you can just discard once the music stops. To me, it's the same as, again, performing in black face. It's offensive, period, and it's not doing anything to help promote understanding and acceptance of real-life queer people. It maybe promotes understanding and acceptance of straight boys pretending to be gay... and that gets us exactly no where. We in fandom already do this quite enough, and we can see how very little political impact we have as a group.
2) And secondly, how would that make someone like Lance Bass, who spent years hiding his sexual orientation, feel, to see people playing at being gay on stage?
It's so hard to wrap my brain around this question without knowing Lance on a personal level, but if it were me (sort of IS me...), I would feel... angry that they're basically mocking (whether meaning to or not) a situation that was very real and hard for him to go through; jealous that they can get away with it; and ANGRY that they can get away with it because they're straight. A gay man can't (or is made to feel like he can't) be gay in a boyband on stage, but straight men CAN. And that says something about our society--that it's okay for straight men to play at being gay as long as they have relationships with girls and aren't *actually* gay, but it's not okay for a gay man to be himself and be honest.
In the end, I should say, yeah, I don't know a whole lot about the personal lives of these guys except that none of them are openly queer ie having queer relationships, and Pete Wentz, just for example, has said over and over that he'll make out with anyone but he's not going to be touching any dicks. So for him, at least, to play at being queer while denying all ACTUAL queerness--yeah, that bugs me. But soooo many things about Wentz bother me that this bit is really just another item on the list.
I go back and forth on the subject, really. Of course, choosing a heterosexual relationship doesn't *negate* queerness, but on the other hand, none of them are willing to come out and say, "Yes, I'm pretty gay" or even "I'm sort of bi", and until they do (and that's a BIG 'until' because I don't think they will...) I will continue to find it offensive that they're playing at being queer.
It's a personal issue for me. I want kids to have queer role models and to see that people from all walks of life, including guys in their favorite bands, are queer, too. But I want those guys to ACTUALLY be queer if they're going to play at it, otherwise it just feels really exploitative, whether it's for money or fans or simply their own amusement. I don't pretend to know why they're doing it, but I know how it makes me feel, and that is: not good. Exploited, and a little angry. I'm sure they don't mean for it to incite these emotions, but we're working towards equality and anti-discrimination laws for queers, and this play acting just feels like a slap in the face of that. It feels like rich, white, straight boys playing at being a minority, and it's just, yeah. Gross, in my opinion.
Only my opinion, of course, and the way I feel about it. I know I'm one of the few fandomers who think this way, and most of us are delighted by all the gay play. And there's nothing wrong with that; I'm not trying to imply that you're some horrible, anti-queer person if you enjoy the gay play. Not at all. I recognize that my views are my own, and nothing more, and that I have rather more radical views than even the average liberal person. Even than the average liberal queer person, probably. I'm offended by completely different things than other people and I'm extremely sensitive about queer issues, just so you know where I'm coming from and that this isn't meant to be a judgement on anyone OR on bandom (because by all means, PLEASE, enjoy the gay, I know I wish I could!); it's just the way I feel, personally and politically. I recognize that my opinion means exactly zero, and anyone is free to tell me to fuck off.
ETA: Just FYI, I have edited this post very late in the game to remove my friend's name and quotes and link. I fucked up really badly in that I didn't realize her post was locked. I'm not going to make excuses for myself. Suffice it to say, I am incredibly stupid and a fuckup for not realizing she'd locked the post, and that I never should've quoted her. I didn't mean for my thoughts, which are mine and mine alone, to be attributed to her or reflect on her in any way. She and I have very different opinions on the subject, and all she was doing was asking the question. I'm the one with the wacked out opinion, NOT her.
Also, I am leaving on a work retreat tomorrow, so I won't be able to respond to a lot of your comments until I get back, hopefully in a better state of mind. Thanks for discussing this with me, and if you choose to continue discussing amongst yourselves, please keep it cool-headed and logical, even though I know this is an emotional subject for everyone (myself included.)
ETA2: In case this is still going on... here's an addition to address some of the questions people have been asking me:
1) Slash--isn't it the same?: I talked about this somewhere in that post, but man, I wouldn't want to troll through those comments to find it myself, so I won't ask you to do it! I've struggled with slash in the past a LOT, and I've written meta on it (which no one cared about, haha!). It doesn't feel like exploitation to me (because these are fictional characters, or real people that we're creating INTO fictional characters) but it does feel like fetishism. It feels like when men want to watch "lesbian" porn. Of course, not all slash has sex in it, but you get the idea.
What I finally decided after talking to a lot of gay men was that if they don't care, then I shouldn't be too worried. I think it is a kind of fetish for some of us (the object of desire being indirect to the person doing the desiring, if that makes sense), but in the same way that guys watching lesbian porn is. I don't think it's necessarily awesome or anything, but it's not hurting anyone and we're not getting money from it.
When straight people (and let's assume they're straight, for the sake of argument, and because that was the scenario I was going with) simulate gay sex acts on stage in a performance at which they are making money, whether they're doing it for titillation (worst case) or to promote gay acceptance (best case), it does hurt someone--it hurts me, and people like me. It feels disrespectful of queer people and the struggles they've gone through, when someone can play at their sexuality, get paid to do it, and then shrug that off and go home with their wives. (and yes, some of them are married).
2) That whole "blackface" thing. I don't think my analogy is extreme, but then, I tend to think that people shouldn't really say, "My oppression is worse than yours." I used that analogy to bring home a point, which was that people, especially people who are already accepting of homosexuality and gay rights, seem to downplay the oppression that homosexuals DO face in the world today. But everyone understands what I mean when I say "blackface". So I said, "If Ryan Ross came out in blackface, regardless of why he was doing it, it would be offensive." I ask--why is it then NOT offensive for a straight person to put on a "gayface"?
Al Jolson famously wore blackface in The Jazz Singer, not to mock black people, but to connect with that inner pain of oppression. And yet when I watch it? I am still incredibly offended. For me (and I emphasize for ME, because not everyone feels this way and I don't expect them to!), gayface is the same thing--it causes the same reaction in me.