The casting for Game of Thrones is perfect. It's such a good adaptation that I'm definitely glad I read the books first, because otherwise it would completely dominate any mental picture of their contents
( Read more... )
I don't know that I agree. I mean, Cersei makes some bad decisions, but Cersei is evil and crazy. Likewise with Lysa Arryn, who is less evil but far more crazy. I don't think Catlyn's decisions are any worse than anyone else's, Sansa is just as much a product of her upbringing as the (terrible) king is of his, and Daenerys and Arya seem downright competent (by the standards of Game of Thrones, I mean.) And the grandmaster of well-intentioned bad decisions is of course Eddard Stark himself (though Robb and Renly have some grand ones later on, too.) And the instigator of all terribleness (who I will not name to avoid spoiling people who have not read the books) is a man, albeit one who manipulates women into bad decisions for his own ends.
And yes, you entirely missed the homosexual relationship between Loris and Renly, which was definitely there.
And the grandmaster of well-intentioned bad decisions is of course Eddard Stark himself
See, disagree there. Stark's initial reaction to being asked to be Hand is "Fuck no, I want no part of that." If he doesn't say "Yes, Robert, I'll come along to your poisonous court," then there's no story, no war, the Lannisters end up on the throne but, really, who gives a fuck? They're no worse than any of the other toxic southern degenerate houses. And he only winds up saying that because his wife talks him into it.
And yes, Cersei makes awful decisions. Lysa makes awful decisions. You think you can just counter my point by arbitrarily disqualifying them from consideration? I think not!
though Robb and Renly have some grand ones later on, tooSure. Robb fucks up, but Robb's bad decision doesn't lead his head on a pike. Cat's advice to him of "Be sure to ask for some food, once you eat in his hall he can't hurt you" is what controls there, which is, as I mentioned, one of the bad "Do what the woman tells you to" decisions
( ... )
Oh, I'm not disqualifying crazy Lysa and Cersei from consideration, I just think they don't really outnumber the equally incompetent men.
I mean, we have Viserys and Robert -- Viserys is crazier than Lysa and Cersei, and you couldn't pick a crappier king than Robert by drawing lots. Eddard, whose sense of duty and honor in the face of certain death land him in certain death, not to mention his choice to trust Petyr Baelish, the single least trustworthy man in the Seven Kingdoms. Stannis thinks he's the messiah, Renly claims the throne with no ability to back it up then makes fun of Stannis at his parley, Robb's fuckup came well before the Red Wedding, when he beheaded Lord Karstark while depending on his army and boinking Jeyne Westerling while promising marriage to the Freys, Khal Drogo killed himself by interfering with his own medical treatment and/or getting medical treatment from someone who hates him... I think ASoIaF is pretty equal when it comes to people doing stupid things that get them killed.
Eddard, whose sense of duty and honor in the face of certain death land him in certain death
Again, I'm not saying the men don't also make bad decisions, I'm just saying that the really bad decisions that drive local climaxes are usually being made by women. Eddard's sense of duty and honor wasn't going to get him to to Robert's court, his wife did that by convincing him to go. Robb's alienation of Walder Frey didn't sit him down to be slaughtered in Frey's hall, his mother did that by convincing him to go. Khal Drogo was comatose when Draenarys enlisted the help of a healer who'd been raped by Drogo's warband, so you can't really blame him for the results. The bad decisions made by men certainly exist, but usually aren't as significant (Viserys is an excellent example, he gets himself killed in a really stupid manner, but there's no chance he was going to amount to anything anyway, so it's not exactly a major plot-driver, he's just an annoying twit who suddenly isn't around anymore).
I have not read the books -- never heard of them before the series, in fact -- but I am emotionally invested in the show now; and let me tell you this: most of the main characters are people I'd like to kill in really brutal ways.
That comes through in the books, too, and is part of what I love about the series. The villains are very well fleshed out and detailed, and you truly begin to HATE them, which leads to eventual rejoicing in some much-deserved dying.
And, when you consider the inspiration (Lancasters and Yorks, ah, you crazy Plantagenets), it just adds more depth.
I have not yet seen the show, but have read the series a couple of times over (and really want that next book out NOW please). This post, and especially this comment makes me think they really nailed it.
Comments 17
And yes, you entirely missed the homosexual relationship between Loris and Renly, which was definitely there.
Reply
See, disagree there. Stark's initial reaction to being asked to be Hand is "Fuck no, I want no part of that." If he doesn't say "Yes, Robert, I'll come along to your poisonous court," then there's no story, no war, the Lannisters end up on the throne but, really, who gives a fuck? They're no worse than any of the other toxic southern degenerate houses. And he only winds up saying that because his wife talks him into it.
And yes, Cersei makes awful decisions. Lysa makes awful decisions. You think you can just counter my point by arbitrarily disqualifying them from consideration? I think not!
though Robb and Renly have some grand ones later on, tooSure. Robb fucks up, but Robb's bad decision doesn't lead his head on a pike. Cat's advice to him of "Be sure to ask for some food, once you eat in his hall he can't hurt you" is what controls there, which is, as I mentioned, one of the bad "Do what the woman tells you to" decisions ( ... )
Reply
I mean, we have Viserys and Robert -- Viserys is crazier than Lysa and Cersei, and you couldn't pick a crappier king than Robert by drawing lots. Eddard, whose sense of duty and honor in the face of certain death land him in certain death, not to mention his choice to trust Petyr Baelish, the single least trustworthy man in the Seven Kingdoms. Stannis thinks he's the messiah, Renly claims the throne with no ability to back it up then makes fun of Stannis at his parley, Robb's fuckup came well before the Red Wedding, when he beheaded Lord Karstark while depending on his army and boinking Jeyne Westerling while promising marriage to the Freys, Khal Drogo killed himself by interfering with his own medical treatment and/or getting medical treatment from someone who hates him... I think ASoIaF is pretty equal when it comes to people doing stupid things that get them killed.
Reply
Again, I'm not saying the men don't also make bad decisions, I'm just saying that the really bad decisions that drive local climaxes are usually being made by women. Eddard's sense of duty and honor wasn't going to get him to to Robert's court, his wife did that by convincing him to go. Robb's alienation of Walder Frey didn't sit him down to be slaughtered in Frey's hall, his mother did that by convincing him to go. Khal Drogo was comatose when Draenarys enlisted the help of a healer who'd been raped by Drogo's warband, so you can't really blame him for the results. The bad decisions made by men certainly exist, but usually aren't as significant (Viserys is an excellent example, he gets himself killed in a really stupid manner, but there's no chance he was going to amount to anything anyway, so it's not exactly a major plot-driver, he's just an annoying twit who suddenly isn't around anymore).
Reply
Reply
And, when you consider the inspiration (Lancasters and Yorks, ah, you crazy Plantagenets), it just adds more depth.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment