The mother of all RP horror stories, Part V
Previous Parts: I, II, III, IV
Back again! When we left off, the situation was degenerating fast. One of my ideas was rejected straight away because the crimes in it weren't "real." The next was tossed out when I confirmed the unworkability of changing it to a setting where my good-natured character would be a prisoner-raping bully. The third-- which met all of her requirements to date-- she hit with every excuse she could come up with, including concern about playing two main characters at once as the second would surely end up a Generic Evil Seme. This concern was voiced in spite of her saying a minute later sadistic rapists were her specialty. She then contradicted herself again with the quick proclamation "Sure, adding an evil bastard to my character list is no problem if it's the plot I want to do!" And finally she defied belief by describing her "sadistic rapist" as someone who "prefers the mindfuck over the physical fuck," thus turning the character into a contradiction in terms.
My theory is that all of her specifications about characters and the reactions she had to the different plot suggestions were due to one other requirement: the playing of Yuna and having the game be only about him and his rape and the resulting angst. She just didn't want to come out and say that. Instead, her plan was to pretend to workshop the game from scratch and subtly manipulate the course of our brainstorming session until that was what we were doing. Then I would be on board because I'd feel like the game was something we'd figured out together rather than a specific goal she'd been pushing for from the start.
The problem is that this girl has all the subtlety of a rollerskating elephant. She's sloppy, and as a result of her delusions of cleverness, we have a giant mess of misleading claims, blatant contradictions and shameless hypocrisy. And it only gets worse. The further we go, the more and more evidence that piles up that a game all about her Stu and his angst was the only thing she ever really cared about.
And she would stop at nothing to get it.
Further description of this villain character reveals that his tactics against Rasu are likely to be killing Rasu’s family and friends in a gruesome manner. Notice once again how conveniently these two characteristics add up to her never having to play the top, let alone a rapist, and that she’s singling out the speshulness of her character. He should garner attention and angst because of his supreme sexiness; mine shouldn’t.
Well, gore is one of MY squicks that I won’t do, and I had no qualms expressing my desire for Rasu’s family being left out of it. Here's her reply (emphasis mine):
[redacted]: :-) No problem. I'm thinking more along the lines that Yuna's owner did something to [the kidnapper], and he's taking Yuna for "payment", to send his rival's toy back to him utterly broken. The bodyguard, Rasu, is just a bonus, so to speak, and another tool to use in breaking Yuna. He'd also enjoy figuring out just what pushes Rasu's buttons though. He loves breaking his toys. ;-)
Well that was arrogant. And self-centered. And insulting. And just plain BAD. I don’t know about anyone else's reaction in that situation, but I quite resented that she seemed to be planning for my character to only exist for the sake of causing hers more angst. We won’t even start on that initial plot of hers where she wanted Rasu-- who is an utter sweetheart-- to rape her character. NO.
Once again, there's no personal responsibility for Yuna's plight, either. He's being taken and beaten because his owner pissed someone off, not because he made any sort of mistake.
Before I can recover enough from her remark that Rasu is only going to be a prop in piling more angst onto Yuna, however, she’s digging herself even deeper. This time her ideas involve playing with the two for a while before the abduction, and she's STILL trying to wrangle Rasu into a position that makes him Yuna's oppressor.
[redacted]: I think it'd also create an interesting dynamic if we could play out a bit between Yuna and Rasu before they get kidnapped...I have a few ideas for that.
[redacted]: Yuna is not exactly thrilled, to say the least, with his owner...and it might be fun if Rasu was hired not only to protect Yuna, but to make sure he doesn't try to run. ;-)
I must wonder: did she even read what I sent her on Rasu’s personality? Has she paid any attention at all to the now countless times in the chat that I’ve made it abundantly clear Rasu is not sadistic, not mean, and full of compassion? If this was really such a turn-off for her, what she'd really meant in her distaste for nice guys, I wish she'd have just been honest and expressed doubt of our compatibility. Or said as much from the beginning when I asked so I could have expressed that doubt myself and saved us both several hours of our time.
Izumiz Angel: I have to say I'm really not liking the developments this is taking :-\ I mean, I can understand the logic in wanting Yuna because he's the toy of the rival*, but it's kind of degrading to my character to have him be "just a bonus" rather than any object of interest for his own merit. On top of that, I don't like the idea of Rasu being turned into some sort of tyrant's helper. I said he'd be a good bodyguard because he's very protective and caring and a good martial artist. He's not a jailkeeper.
*Compared to wanting Rasu because he's just a randomly hired hand.
[redacted]: I know that. I was merely illustrating how the leader guy would see him.
I'm actually not sure which leader we're talking about here: the one that owns Yuna and who would see Rasu as a jailkeeper, or the one who's stealing Yuna and who would see Rasu as "just a bonus." I'm guessing she meant the latter. She is either failing to see or hoping I will fail to see that this isn't just a matter of IC perception. If this attitude is what she's planning for the big leader, the character SHE plays, then what’s going to make it any different in actuality unless I RP my OWN character taking a stronger interest in him? And I just don’t do that. If the guy in charge considers Rasu to be just a bonus, that’s all he’ll be. DUH.
Still, it's better than her completely ignoring my complaint about the "just a bonus" mentality. At least, it is until you realize it means she's ignoring the one about Rasu's job responsibilities instead.
Izumiz Angel: I'm trying to say Rasu would not accept a job to not just protect but to make sure he doesn't try to run.
[redacted]: Well, that's why I'd want to play some things out, to see where it leads. I can see Yuna and Rasu possibly becoming friends in a way, because as you said, Rasu is the caring type. I didn't mean that either would be necessarily happy with the arrangement at first though.
Rasu. Would. Not. Take. This. Job.
There are no complicated words in that sentence!
Izumiz Angel: I don't know if I'm not communicating this clearly enough or if I'm somehow misunderstanding you. If part of Rasu's job is to keep Yuna from running away, he will not do the job in the first place.
[redacted]: Yuna's background is such that he's not willingly working at the gentleman's club, and he's there because of some debt he incurred with the other leader guy, the rival of the two dom guys.
[redacted]: Alrighty...I guess other guys could be making sure none of the employees try to run. :-\
AND IT FINALLY SINKS IN. Good LORD it should not require three tries to communicate that simple concept of “My character wouldn’t do this.” And for heaven's sakes, lose the Pout Of Doom like you’re irritated with me for not agreeing to something OOC for my character!
For the sake of perspective, we've now been talking over IM for more than six hours-- and almost nonstop. Yuna is first mentioned three hours in. Ten minutes later I excuse myself to figure out an alternative to her Yuna game, and it takes her a little over an hour to get it back on the table. There's an hour-long break thanks to RL issues, and now we're both back and she's been jonesing on this bodyguard premise for the last 45 minutes. Supposedly this plot is a combination of our two ideas, but really the only thing she's taken from my idea is to change Rasu's allegiance so he's inexplicably kidnapped too. It's still all about Yuna.
I've had plenty of time to realize I'm almost certainly not going to enjoy this idea either. I don't want to waste even more time on a dead end, and I presume she doesn't want to either. SO:
Izumiz Angel: How would you feel about exploring some other possible RP scenarios? Maybe it's something within the gang rather than outside of it.
[redacted]: What do you mean?
I MEAN I DON’T LIKE THIS IDEA LET’S TRY SOMETHING ELSE. You’re either thick as mud or continuing to treat everything I don't beat against your skull like a concrete block as a negotiable statement. Honestly, I don't think there's anything unclear about my message.
Izumiz Angel: Well, if Yuna already isn't where he is by choice then what's the point of kidnapping him? Perhaps it would be better to explore the apparent conflict between him and his owner.
[redacted]: That wasn't really the point. :-\ Yuna is hardly going to be actively seeking to run off, but he resents his owner mostly on principle. He's treated well enough, but he's basically kept as "decoration", and his owner will occasionally remind him of it. It basically just drives Yuna nuts, because he's very independent and strong willed--he hates not being in control and having the freedom to go where he wants.
Why was it so freaking important to you that Rasu's job include seeing Yuna doesn't run away if Yuna wasn’t going to be actively trying to run off?!
That's also not an answer to my question. Nothing in that paragraph explains to me what difference it makes to abduct Yuna rather than to leave him where he is.
Fact is, you’re not interested in exploring character relationships, as illustrated once again. The angst between Yuna and his owner is of no significance to you. You want him kidnapped, raped, beaten, and for Rasu to serve as a vessel for causing him even further angst in whatever ways I will allow. Nothing more.
Izumiz Angel: ^^ I think it might be best if we let this sit for tonight and maybe we'll talk again tomorrow. We can each do some thinking in the meantime. I'm feeling increasingly turned off by this RP idea which makes it highly unlikely I'll be able to do it for a long-term story, which is something you mentioned wanting. I'd like to pause on the workshopping and explore some other options later if that's okay with you.
All right, even if my first message had somehow been unclear, this one is as plain and simple a request as it gets. It’s politely worded without muddling my sentiments. If nothing else, common courtesy dictates obliging.
[redacted]: What's turning you off about it?
Izumiz Angel: Well, a few things, but I'd like to have some time to gather my thoughts before I attempted to share them.
AGAIN, note the request for us to STOP TALKING ABOUT IT and let me THINK BEFORE I TRY TO ANSWER. DENIED.
[redacted]: It's very difficult for me to work with a highly developed character, because I get one idea that works, and five others that won't. :-\
[redacted]: And I seem to inevitably offend just by a random idea.
That’s because your five other ideas are all making him into a bad guy! Moron.
It's also because you keep rejecting the ideas that come from the person who knows the character. I gave you three perfectly workable ideas and you didn't want to do a single one of them. Instead you keep coming back to this stupid "gang leader's unwilling whore" premise and trying to force-fit my character into as antagonistic a role as you can.
[redacted]: You know your character best, and I'm hesitant to suggest things for him, so Yuna isn't hogging the spotlight, because I'll likely get something totally wrong.
Quit trying to cover your ass. You've made plenty of suggestions; they just all SUCK. Why? Because you have refused to acknowledge my REPEATED statements that Rasu is a nice and caring person. You similarly disregarded the 500-word profile of his personality I gave you at the onset. In spite of all this information about his personality to work from, you STILL keep trying to twist this RP into something where his main purpose is to create even more angst for Yuna because having him abducted, raped and beaten isn’t enough for you.
If you really wanted the spotlight to be balanced and were just hesitant to make suggestions, why have you not-- bizarre as this may sound-- ASKED ME FOR SOME IDEAS. Or listened to any of the several I've already offered you?
Unfortunately, she ignored both of my requests to let me have some time away to think. Because I'm not possessing of similar rudeness, I stayed and continued to try to answer. I didn't have a chance to sort out the explanation she wanted (or the rebuttal she deserved), and so instead of addressing the real problems, we started chasing a red herring.
We can pick up with that next time.
Part VI
Back again! When we left off, the situation was degenerating fast. One of my ideas was rejected straight away because the crimes in it weren't "real." The next was tossed out when I confirmed the unworkability of changing it to a setting where my good-natured character would be a prisoner-raping bully. The third-- which met all of her requirements to date-- she hit with every excuse she could come up with, including concern about playing two main characters at once as the second would surely end up a Generic Evil Seme. This concern was voiced in spite of her saying a minute later sadistic rapists were her specialty. She then contradicted herself again with the quick proclamation "Sure, adding an evil bastard to my character list is no problem if it's the plot I want to do!" And finally she defied belief by describing her "sadistic rapist" as someone who "prefers the mindfuck over the physical fuck," thus turning the character into a contradiction in terms.
My theory is that all of her specifications about characters and the reactions she had to the different plot suggestions were due to one other requirement: the playing of Yuna and having the game be only about him and his rape and the resulting angst. She just didn't want to come out and say that. Instead, her plan was to pretend to workshop the game from scratch and subtly manipulate the course of our brainstorming session until that was what we were doing. Then I would be on board because I'd feel like the game was something we'd figured out together rather than a specific goal she'd been pushing for from the start.
The problem is that this girl has all the subtlety of a rollerskating elephant. She's sloppy, and as a result of her delusions of cleverness, we have a giant mess of misleading claims, blatant contradictions and shameless hypocrisy. And it only gets worse. The further we go, the more and more evidence that piles up that a game all about her Stu and his angst was the only thing she ever really cared about.
And she would stop at nothing to get it.
Further description of this villain character reveals that his tactics against Rasu are likely to be killing Rasu’s family and friends in a gruesome manner. Notice once again how conveniently these two characteristics add up to her never having to play the top, let alone a rapist, and that she’s singling out the speshulness of her character. He should garner attention and angst because of his supreme sexiness; mine shouldn’t.
Well, gore is one of MY squicks that I won’t do, and I had no qualms expressing my desire for Rasu’s family being left out of it. Here's her reply (emphasis mine):
[redacted]: :-) No problem. I'm thinking more along the lines that Yuna's owner did something to [the kidnapper], and he's taking Yuna for "payment", to send his rival's toy back to him utterly broken. The bodyguard, Rasu, is just a bonus, so to speak, and another tool to use in breaking Yuna. He'd also enjoy figuring out just what pushes Rasu's buttons though. He loves breaking his toys. ;-)
Well that was arrogant. And self-centered. And insulting. And just plain BAD. I don’t know about anyone else's reaction in that situation, but I quite resented that she seemed to be planning for my character to only exist for the sake of causing hers more angst. We won’t even start on that initial plot of hers where she wanted Rasu-- who is an utter sweetheart-- to rape her character. NO.
Once again, there's no personal responsibility for Yuna's plight, either. He's being taken and beaten because his owner pissed someone off, not because he made any sort of mistake.
Before I can recover enough from her remark that Rasu is only going to be a prop in piling more angst onto Yuna, however, she’s digging herself even deeper. This time her ideas involve playing with the two for a while before the abduction, and she's STILL trying to wrangle Rasu into a position that makes him Yuna's oppressor.
[redacted]: I think it'd also create an interesting dynamic if we could play out a bit between Yuna and Rasu before they get kidnapped...I have a few ideas for that.
[redacted]: Yuna is not exactly thrilled, to say the least, with his owner...and it might be fun if Rasu was hired not only to protect Yuna, but to make sure he doesn't try to run. ;-)
I must wonder: did she even read what I sent her on Rasu’s personality? Has she paid any attention at all to the now countless times in the chat that I’ve made it abundantly clear Rasu is not sadistic, not mean, and full of compassion? If this was really such a turn-off for her, what she'd really meant in her distaste for nice guys, I wish she'd have just been honest and expressed doubt of our compatibility. Or said as much from the beginning when I asked so I could have expressed that doubt myself and saved us both several hours of our time.
Izumiz Angel: I have to say I'm really not liking the developments this is taking :-\ I mean, I can understand the logic in wanting Yuna because he's the toy of the rival*, but it's kind of degrading to my character to have him be "just a bonus" rather than any object of interest for his own merit. On top of that, I don't like the idea of Rasu being turned into some sort of tyrant's helper. I said he'd be a good bodyguard because he's very protective and caring and a good martial artist. He's not a jailkeeper.
*Compared to wanting Rasu because he's just a randomly hired hand.
[redacted]: I know that. I was merely illustrating how the leader guy would see him.
I'm actually not sure which leader we're talking about here: the one that owns Yuna and who would see Rasu as a jailkeeper, or the one who's stealing Yuna and who would see Rasu as "just a bonus." I'm guessing she meant the latter. She is either failing to see or hoping I will fail to see that this isn't just a matter of IC perception. If this attitude is what she's planning for the big leader, the character SHE plays, then what’s going to make it any different in actuality unless I RP my OWN character taking a stronger interest in him? And I just don’t do that. If the guy in charge considers Rasu to be just a bonus, that’s all he’ll be. DUH.
Still, it's better than her completely ignoring my complaint about the "just a bonus" mentality. At least, it is until you realize it means she's ignoring the one about Rasu's job responsibilities instead.
Izumiz Angel: I'm trying to say Rasu would not accept a job to not just protect but to make sure he doesn't try to run.
[redacted]: Well, that's why I'd want to play some things out, to see where it leads. I can see Yuna and Rasu possibly becoming friends in a way, because as you said, Rasu is the caring type. I didn't mean that either would be necessarily happy with the arrangement at first though.
Rasu. Would. Not. Take. This. Job.
There are no complicated words in that sentence!
Izumiz Angel: I don't know if I'm not communicating this clearly enough or if I'm somehow misunderstanding you. If part of Rasu's job is to keep Yuna from running away, he will not do the job in the first place.
[redacted]: Yuna's background is such that he's not willingly working at the gentleman's club, and he's there because of some debt he incurred with the other leader guy, the rival of the two dom guys.
[redacted]: Alrighty...I guess other guys could be making sure none of the employees try to run. :-\
AND IT FINALLY SINKS IN. Good LORD it should not require three tries to communicate that simple concept of “My character wouldn’t do this.” And for heaven's sakes, lose the Pout Of Doom like you’re irritated with me for not agreeing to something OOC for my character!
For the sake of perspective, we've now been talking over IM for more than six hours-- and almost nonstop. Yuna is first mentioned three hours in. Ten minutes later I excuse myself to figure out an alternative to her Yuna game, and it takes her a little over an hour to get it back on the table. There's an hour-long break thanks to RL issues, and now we're both back and she's been jonesing on this bodyguard premise for the last 45 minutes. Supposedly this plot is a combination of our two ideas, but really the only thing she's taken from my idea is to change Rasu's allegiance so he's inexplicably kidnapped too. It's still all about Yuna.
I've had plenty of time to realize I'm almost certainly not going to enjoy this idea either. I don't want to waste even more time on a dead end, and I presume she doesn't want to either. SO:
Izumiz Angel: How would you feel about exploring some other possible RP scenarios? Maybe it's something within the gang rather than outside of it.
[redacted]: What do you mean?
I MEAN I DON’T LIKE THIS IDEA LET’S TRY SOMETHING ELSE. You’re either thick as mud or continuing to treat everything I don't beat against your skull like a concrete block as a negotiable statement. Honestly, I don't think there's anything unclear about my message.
Izumiz Angel: Well, if Yuna already isn't where he is by choice then what's the point of kidnapping him? Perhaps it would be better to explore the apparent conflict between him and his owner.
[redacted]: That wasn't really the point. :-\ Yuna is hardly going to be actively seeking to run off, but he resents his owner mostly on principle. He's treated well enough, but he's basically kept as "decoration", and his owner will occasionally remind him of it. It basically just drives Yuna nuts, because he's very independent and strong willed--he hates not being in control and having the freedom to go where he wants.
Why was it so freaking important to you that Rasu's job include seeing Yuna doesn't run away if Yuna wasn’t going to be actively trying to run off?!
That's also not an answer to my question. Nothing in that paragraph explains to me what difference it makes to abduct Yuna rather than to leave him where he is.
Fact is, you’re not interested in exploring character relationships, as illustrated once again. The angst between Yuna and his owner is of no significance to you. You want him kidnapped, raped, beaten, and for Rasu to serve as a vessel for causing him even further angst in whatever ways I will allow. Nothing more.
Izumiz Angel: ^^ I think it might be best if we let this sit for tonight and maybe we'll talk again tomorrow. We can each do some thinking in the meantime. I'm feeling increasingly turned off by this RP idea which makes it highly unlikely I'll be able to do it for a long-term story, which is something you mentioned wanting. I'd like to pause on the workshopping and explore some other options later if that's okay with you.
All right, even if my first message had somehow been unclear, this one is as plain and simple a request as it gets. It’s politely worded without muddling my sentiments. If nothing else, common courtesy dictates obliging.
[redacted]: What's turning you off about it?
Izumiz Angel: Well, a few things, but I'd like to have some time to gather my thoughts before I attempted to share them.
AGAIN, note the request for us to STOP TALKING ABOUT IT and let me THINK BEFORE I TRY TO ANSWER. DENIED.
[redacted]: It's very difficult for me to work with a highly developed character, because I get one idea that works, and five others that won't. :-\
[redacted]: And I seem to inevitably offend just by a random idea.
That’s because your five other ideas are all making him into a bad guy! Moron.
It's also because you keep rejecting the ideas that come from the person who knows the character. I gave you three perfectly workable ideas and you didn't want to do a single one of them. Instead you keep coming back to this stupid "gang leader's unwilling whore" premise and trying to force-fit my character into as antagonistic a role as you can.
[redacted]: You know your character best, and I'm hesitant to suggest things for him, so Yuna isn't hogging the spotlight, because I'll likely get something totally wrong.
Quit trying to cover your ass. You've made plenty of suggestions; they just all SUCK. Why? Because you have refused to acknowledge my REPEATED statements that Rasu is a nice and caring person. You similarly disregarded the 500-word profile of his personality I gave you at the onset. In spite of all this information about his personality to work from, you STILL keep trying to twist this RP into something where his main purpose is to create even more angst for Yuna because having him abducted, raped and beaten isn’t enough for you.
If you really wanted the spotlight to be balanced and were just hesitant to make suggestions, why have you not-- bizarre as this may sound-- ASKED ME FOR SOME IDEAS. Or listened to any of the several I've already offered you?
Unfortunately, she ignored both of my requests to let me have some time away to think. Because I'm not possessing of similar rudeness, I stayed and continued to try to answer. I didn't have a chance to sort out the explanation she wanted (or the rebuttal she deserved), and so instead of addressing the real problems, we started chasing a red herring.
We can pick up with that next time.
Part VI