One of the reasons I felt OK about getting an English degree rather than a degree that might actually let me get a job is that my mother scrupulously saved her pay for years to allow both me and my brother to spend 4 years in a state-supported school in our own state. We were responsible for our own books and any expenses beyond housing and a meal plan during the year, and if we didn't graduate in 4 years we were on our own. And it's not like we were rich ... my dad managed a print shop, which was a small business with fewer than 20 employees, and my mom was a social worker. We had a budget and stuck to it. So the very idea of getting $100k in the hole for a degree that won't let you get a job sounds crazy dumb to me.
There are so many absurd sentences in that article I don't even know where to start. I do kind of think it would be a good idea for student loan recipients to take a financial planning class, largely for the same reasons I think credit card issuers shouldn't be allowed to show up on campuses and offer students T-shirts in exchange for filling out a credit card application.
but one of the most troublesome things for me here is that the writer seems to imply that we SHOULD be able to charge off these "ridiculous" student loan debts as part of a bankruptcy. ORLY?
And on top of that- you were an English major who became a writer and editor. This girl is a photographer's assistant in the most expensive city in the US.
sigh. but she's not to blame. the financial aid office should have discouraged her, apparently.
People aren't gonna want to hear it, but: I think some of the problem is that our society has ingrained this idea that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has to go to college to have a worthwhile life. They don't.
or that every single person has to go to college immediately after high school, whether they have funds for it or not.
Many of the people I know are not working in the same field that they got their degree in - me included. (Hello, masters of costume design. and now, bookkeeping.) I think people should have the opportunity to get out in the world, figure out what they like and what they're good at, and then go to college if they need more training.
Thanks for reminding me what a colossal mistake I made by taking out student loans for a job that was never well paid to begin with, and now is obsolete.
I think student loans are a racket, in general. Either a career/degree is worthwhile enough for society as a whole to pay for by way of grants, fellowships, etc. (like for doctors, teachers, useful stuff like that) or it's something frivolous that you should pay for yourself using money you earn or money you inherit.
But going into debt for something that you can't hold in your hands afterwards is a stupid move. (Says the woman who is so far down in debt that she can't even see the top of it.)
wait, did that read like i was criticizing you?? i absolutely was not. i am very sorry if it read that way.
i was saying the opposite- that it seems patently unfair that you could have so much debt for an advanced degree from a state school, a degree which translates directly to a field that NEEDS trained professionals, and then be stuck because that field becomes obsolete without any warning. i mean, i don't know what your student loans amount to, but i can't imagine that your in-state degree program cost as much as this fool's worthless undergrad degree from nyu. and yet it has been enough to keep you in debt, and that seems wrong. you were smart in your choices, and yet are now in a bad place. this girl is whining because she made bad choices, and she is blaming others for her situation. that to me smacks of her privilege.
I realize that you weren't criticixing me. I understood what you were saying. I'm just... in a weird state of mind right now.
And I am so much more than $10K in debt. But not anywhere near $100K, at least not for that.
To some extent, I think that liberal arts can be self-perpetuating in the privilege department. While I agree with your larger point, I'm sure that while this girl was in school, her professors and whatnot were giving her all kinds of praise and validation about how brilliant she was - and by god, they got jobs and made women's studies pay, so why couldn't she?
My undergrad degree is in English, and all throughout my five slacker years of school, my advisor kept saying "You can do anything with an English degree." And she was right - I did. I wound up working as a nanny and cleaning houses before I got my library clerk job
( ... )
and i don't mean to say that ANY education is a waste, because i don't think that. i do, to a certain extent, believe that ALL education is valid. (i'm not gonna say that absolutely about, say, bob jones university or someshit). i think education should be affordable, and it clearly is not.
what i reject is this notion that this article seems to project that this girl's got the RIGHT to an "education" in whatever area she chose at whatever price she chose. and if she can't pay for it, she should be able to write it off. i mean, i don't know what you owe, but lets say your 10k seems as unreachable a debt for you as her 100k is for her. it may seem that way, but 10k for your masters degree doesn't strike me as frivolous the way her 100k bachelors degree does.
and canada. theonlychild is a surgeon in montreal, and her medical training was paid for by the government. had she been american, she would likely be a 2 year surgical resident with 150k in debt instead.
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You know what else they say: work somewhere that produces something you can hold in your hands.
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One of the reasons I felt OK about getting an English degree rather than a degree that might actually let me get a job is that my mother scrupulously saved her pay for years to allow both me and my brother to spend 4 years in a state-supported school in our own state. We were responsible for our own books and any expenses beyond housing and a meal plan during the year, and if we didn't graduate in 4 years we were on our own. And it's not like we were rich ... my dad managed a print shop, which was a small business with fewer than 20 employees, and my mom was a social worker. We had a budget and stuck to it. So the very idea of getting $100k in the hole for a degree that won't let you get a job sounds crazy dumb to me.
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but one of the most troublesome things for me here is that the writer seems to imply that we SHOULD be able to charge off these "ridiculous" student loan debts as part of a bankruptcy. ORLY?
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sigh. but she's not to blame. the financial aid office should have discouraged her, apparently.
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Many of the people I know are not working in the same field that they got their degree in - me included. (Hello, masters of costume design. and now, bookkeeping.) I think people should have the opportunity to get out in the world, figure out what they like and what they're good at, and then go to college if they need more training.
Reply
I think student loans are a racket, in general. Either a career/degree is worthwhile enough for society as a whole to pay for by way of grants, fellowships, etc. (like for doctors, teachers, useful stuff like that) or it's something frivolous that you should pay for yourself using money you earn or money you inherit.
But going into debt for something that you can't hold in your hands afterwards is a stupid move. (Says the woman who is so far down in debt that she can't even see the top of it.)
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i was saying the opposite- that it seems patently unfair that you could have so much debt for an advanced degree from a state school, a degree which translates directly to a field that NEEDS trained professionals, and then be stuck because that field becomes obsolete without any warning. i mean, i don't know what your student loans amount to, but i can't imagine that your in-state degree program cost as much as this fool's worthless undergrad degree from nyu. and yet it has been enough to keep you in debt, and that seems wrong. you were smart in your choices, and yet are now in a bad place. this girl is whining because she made bad choices, and she is blaming others for her situation. that to me smacks of her privilege.
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And I am so much more than $10K in debt. But not anywhere near $100K, at least not for that.
To some extent, I think that liberal arts can be self-perpetuating in the privilege department. While I agree with your larger point, I'm sure that while this girl was in school, her professors and whatnot were giving her all kinds of praise and validation about how brilliant she was - and by god, they got jobs and made women's studies pay, so why couldn't she?
My undergrad degree is in English, and all throughout my five slacker years of school, my advisor kept saying "You can do anything with an English degree." And she was right - I did. I wound up working as a nanny and cleaning houses before I got my library clerk job ( ... )
Reply
what i reject is this notion that this article seems to project that this girl's got the RIGHT to an "education" in whatever area she chose at whatever price she chose. and if she can't pay for it, she should be able to write it off. i mean, i don't know what you owe, but lets say your 10k seems as unreachable a debt for you as her 100k is for her. it may seem that way, but 10k for your masters degree doesn't strike me as frivolous the way her 100k bachelors degree does.
yes, i am being Super Judgey.
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