Pagan tithing

[pinkpolarity]

(A friend on Facebook put up a really interesting post on tithing, and she linked to the article I'm about to address in it. I wish I could address and link to her post, but proper blogging etiquette is to give a linkback in that post to here, so that she and her commenters, if they wish, can comment here. But I really, REALLY do not want this

Comments

[reileen]

This is a really good post - I'm bookmarking for further reference and linking. I think you bring up a lot of issues worth thinking about and finding solutions for.

[pinkpolarity]

Thank you!

[kitrinlu]

That was really interesting. You're quite right in that no one needs a Pagan organisation in order to donate a charity or adopt a polar bear. The other thing that struck me was that all of the suggestions are outreach-focussed - they're all about doing something for people who aren't your group of worshippers. Christians are really into that too, but the difference imo is that Christians tend to have the internal support that makes that sort of thing more possible. As you were saying, Christian groups tend to make sure that people within the group are supported and taken care of, and I'd imagine that it's much easier to set up scholarships and adopt polar bears if you know that you'll have a building to worship/practise in and you know the leaders are being paid and you know that if things go horribly wrong there will be people there for you, because things are already set up to be that way

[pinkpolarity]

I'm not sure how the neo-Pagan movement is organised, but unless there's someone who is in charge of the whole thing and can say 'we're doing community and this is how it will work', or unless this kind of community is one of the tenets of the belief system, it seems like it would be something that could be relatively easy to implement on a small scale for a single group, but much more difficult to set up on a larger scale.The important thing to know here is that the 'neo-Pagan movement' is a raucous, anarchic umbrella for dozens of individual religions that have have little or nothing in common. So there could never be someone in charge of the "whole thing" any more than there could ever be one person in charge of all of Christianity (and y'all can at least agree on the same God, that there *is* a god, and *most* of the same books). And all of the religions under that umbrella are as denominationally-fractured as Christianity is. So the best you'd ever get is agreement on how to do community within one of the larger international

[darth_eldritch]

This is very thought provoking. Thank you. I am going to read this over a few times because tithing is something I have studied on and off for years.

I know Pagans who are against tithing just for the issue you mention, non-focused. Or it's too "xtian."

As for Christiananity and tragedy, I can discuss a lot about that, but in general Christians don't advertise it out of genuine humility. I can attest that they have literally saved our lives, my daughter and myself. In fact, I nearly posted something about it last night. I think I will, after all.

[pinkpolarity]

Or it's too "xtian."

Yeah, I think "tithing" is an unfortunate choice of words because anything that carries that much Christian baggage on it is going to make a given percentage of the community scram automatically. Which... I think a lot can be gotten out of observing Christianity as a non-practitioner, but I also respect that a lot of these people have been abused by Christians or by Christian groups, and their reticence is natural and expected.

I have no doubt that Christians have saved lives. Christianity is a paradox-- there's much in its operation and theology that I find dangerous, and yet it's a thing of beauty that has done as much immeasurable good as it has done immeasurable evil. Perhaps the same could be said about all religions that have held power.

[darth_eldritch]

I fully understand and don't blame them. The definition of tithing has been abused by some churches to get more money.

There are legions of those who call themselves Christians, yet do not fully practice the "true teachings" of forgiveness, acceptance, and non-judgment, and these people give all the others the bad rep. Churches as a whole, and organized religion turn me off. Then there are the true Christians who are truly wonderful enlightened beings who can make putting up with the rest worth while. At least I have been fortunate enough to experience them. I have noticed that the ones who have helped us were of a minority of a large church where I felt rather an outsider as a whole, and the ones I did know understood how I felt, for they weren't happy with the pretenders, either.

I can see how outsiders can be completely turned off by these groups, and I don't blame them. I am becoming more and more anti-religious (as opposed to spiritual mindedness).

[wendeliz]

growing up mormon when i hear tithing i think of the corporation that church has become.

I think that people should support the things that are important to them when and how they can. we used to have dues for the grove, but we stopped them as times got tough - i have supported it out of my own pocket. but i don't expect anyone to pay me back, that was part of my offering to the community.

I would love to discuss the kind of rituals you would like to see more of, i think a disability ritual which was more about accepting yourself and using your weaknesses as a strength might be amazing. I don't know if that's your vision of it, but it was what I thought of. We'll be planning out rituals this weekend, and I'm going to try to push for more practical rituals and ones closer to the city.

:)

[pinkpolarity]

Hmm... let me think a bit on what a ritual I'd want to see in a perfect world might look like. I think disability ritual could be either fantastic or a complete trainwreck depending on how its handled. I guess the big things would be not assuming that all disabled people have the same experience, not focusing on healing/getting well, making sure to include both mental and physical disabilities, not offering pity or assuming that we've been given super abilities as a tradeoff (ex: people who think that Deaf people have super-acute other senses as a result). I don't know how other PWD feel, but some of my issues are feeling I can't be a full part of my religious community (and feeling like my accommodations are a burden), not feeling comfortable in my body, sometimes being angry at the Gods about the things I can't do. Easy to say what a ritual like that shouldn't do, harder to come up with what it should. Especially falling asleep and on Ambien! Let me sleep on this.

TY for your comment!

[hagazusa]

As an individualistic alternative religion as opposed to an institutional church, I don't know that Pagan tithing would work. But individual Pagans can donate what they can afford to causes they believe in. Those who can't donate money, might be able to donate time.

I make regular donations to Amnesty International. It's not faith based, but it's a cause I believe in. Where we put our money and time can make a difference, but I don't see it as a narrowly-focued faith-based tithe system.

[pinkpolarity]

As an individualistic alternative religion as opposed to an institutional church, I don't know that Pagan tithing would work.

Yeah, I hear this. I think if Pagan religions want to borrow from Christianity, they have to consider that individualist/communalist tension a bit more carefully and also consider the whole that the tithing system is part of with Christianity-- can you borrow one part without the reasons why it's there and the reasons why it's functional and plug it into a vastly different model and expect it to work trouble-free?

I'd personally like to see Pagan religions start to shed a lot of the individualism, in particular, and become more collective and more relevant. Less alternative, too, though I dither over that one. There are things I like about the counter-culture aspect of neo-Paganism and things I think are really impeded by it.

Thanks for the comment! Your altar is just lovely, btw. As I expected an altar of yours would be, very well pulled together and elegant.