(no subject)
I think I am about to refund a customer for the first time, ever. Bear with me, it's gonna get long.
I posted a journal on FA stating that I was open for a few commissions. I got a private note from some dude:
"Hey there Bloodhound ^^ I saw your journal and would like to ask if your available for commissioning X3
It would be a full colour piece, with background, female character and clean content - maybe nude - and a macro theme at large scale.
Character wise is either one of mine or, how about this; your fursona as the macro? Its a thing I like to do, a twist of having the artist as the macro instead XD but of course that is up to you ^^
please let me know what ya think, thanks for your time."
Now, I have no problems drawing difference in scale - just look at all the Person/Blood art - so I thought sure, this will be fine. I replied:
"That sounds doable! It doesn't matter to me which character is featured. How were you thinking of showing off the size? Towering above trees, or something like that?"
"cool ^^
So you are ok with me commissioning a nude Bloodhound fursona romping along? XD
I was thinking of her walking along, maybe noticing and liking the feeling? Depends, how would your fursona be like if she was a big macro?
Scale wise, a bit similar to this;
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2223942/
So like buildings reach the tops of her toes.
Also how about inserts, like the linked piece, to have inserts showing close ups/pov's/angles of her paws as she walks along X3"
At this point, I realized I had to make sure I wasn't going to be screwed over. A single image is one thing, but a single page with inserts is entirely different. It's more work, and thus, it should cost more. So begins the long and frustrating process of haggling - by which I mean HE haggled and I had to stand ground.
"she probably WOULD like it. I'm totally into dollhouses and miniatures X3
That all seems doable. I do enjoy drawing Bloodhound, after all.
A color image with background and inset will run you $45. Is that comfortable for you? I can take paypal, checks, money orders, and cash (if you're not afraid to mail it)."
"I am cool with paypal, so that'd be the preffered method, I normall pay half or full after seeing a wip :3
I was thinking for 2 or 4 inserts showingt the phases of her taking a step, like one of the paw hovering over, another with the heel down, the next with the whole foot down and lastly the paw withdrawing viewed from behind showing the paw crator - lol too big to call them prints, it'd be the whole shape of the foot with deeper impressions for the pads X3
Also if and when in view, the littles would be human :3 no details are really needed except in the inserts and where her paws touch the ground, like vehicles and crushed ones and peeps - lil red splats.
hehe glad she would like it, is it ok if she was nude? And can this be private for now.
XD what would she get up to is she was at this colossal scale?"
That is a TON of detail he's describing - and the 'little red splats' is totally not my bag. This is getting out of hand, so I try to rein him in. Not to mention, he is wanting to pay only after I begin working, which is not how I work.
"Okay, let's slow down here. Including more than one inset is going to change the price. Are you sure you're not looking for more of a comic page? Also, the amount of detail you're asking for - a host of people and vehicles - is going to the change the price as well.
Two other things to mention: It is in my commission policy, which you can read here (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2555961/) that payment must be made up front. I don't, however, have any problem saying the piece was commissioned anonymously.
Please let me know ASAP what you want to do. I'm sure we can work something out!"
"Alrighty. Lets have the main piece with 2 inserts anyway, like the link image I showed ya, would ya do that for 45?
Also how much would it be for a bit more detail?
Fair enough in regards to your policy, but I have been played with before so its usually my own policy to work that way, as long as we have good communication then I see no problem with paying ya upfront."
Really, I can't blame the guy for wanting to get his money's worth. And I can't blame him for not wanting to get ripped off.
"I don't blame you. I had to change my policy after being, for lack of a better word, stood up several times. It's a mess, isn't it? Please feel assured that I'm not going to snatch your money and ditch.
For the image like Kacey did for you, I'd charge $50. Pumped-up detail on stuff will put it at $60, and I'll include shipping for that price, if you'd like the original."
"Fair enough ^^
but can't you accept half upfront then the rest after a wip? :3 also this is a traditional piece? Then yes, I would love to have the original ^^
How much would it be with one insert?"
Okay, now I'm getting pissed. I have stated that MY policy is payment up front. ALL payment. He approached ME for art. He should be ready and willing to play by MY rules.
"It can be colored either in marker or digitally, but there will be, at the very least, a physical drawing.
For one inset in the image, it will be $45. If you'd like the art afterwards as well, it will be $50.
And I'm afraid I can't be budged on my payment policy. I do understand your point of view, but it is not how I do things. (I hope that didn't come off snarky or pissy)"
"ok, lol no ya didn't come off as that ^^ I respect the ways ya work and such.
ok then, as soon as your paid how long till I see a wip from ya? no rush, just wanna know :3
would it be 50 with 2 inserts and detail?"
"I'm pretty quick when it comes to sketching, so you can expect to see something within the week.
And yes, $50 for two insets, and I'll do my best to crush the buildings and vehicles :3
My paypal is kimkirkdorfer[at]gmail.com and if you could send it as 'personal', paypal won't snipe any fees off it.
Thanks!"
Paypal notifies me that payment has been sent, but is 'pending' until June 18th. I let him know this, and that I'll start as soon as payment clears. Which it eventually does, and I get to work. I actually do some homework before this, looking at aerial maps and googling the Louisville river front, just to make it a little more fun for me. I sketch something up for him, two different mock-ups, and send it along. Days pass, and no word. I don't know if he hasn't checked his email or what, so I note him on FA to please go check his email. This was his reply:
"Hey there ^^
This is looking alright. However her scale is a bit to small for my liking. I think the scale where her paw is wider than the ohio river sounds better to me X3
So the main image is kinda ok, but not quite what I had in mind; I was thinking of her actively stepping down on part of a tiny city; looking down at the city as she goes along; lol she could have stepped on the *small* river ohio and its water infills a big macro-paw print XD
Anyway, that's what I had in mind; scale X3 increase it please if its not a problem X3"
Fair enough, my bad, he wants smaller scale and that's no big issue. It's cool, really. I do another one, with the buildings the size of toes, and Bloodhound more fleshed out than in the first image. Then this:
"hey there ^^
This is looking better :) That is the kinda scale I was thinking about c:
But I am starting to think about the character - lol I knew she was pretty rounded X3 but thats pretty rounded XD
I would like her right foot to be fully planted on the ground :3
Its looking good lol a few reservations about her build XD"
So NOW I've sent him three - THREE - sketches of macro naked Bloodhound and he has NOW decided he doesn't want to use her because she's "too round"?
Please don't get me wrong; I'm not offended that my character is too fat for him. What DOES bother me is that he ASKED for Bloodhound, clearly he's seen the art of her, he KNEW she was an overweight character. If he didn't want that, he should not have asked.
At this point, I want out. From the get-go, arguing over price and payment, it has been nothing but a hassle. I have a feeling I'm going to put more work into this than the $50 he paid, and that neither of us is really going to be satisfied in the end.
I've never refunded money and dropped a project before. I've declined projects, but that was before payment was made or even talked about. This is new territory for me, and I worry about how it's going to affect my reputation. Word of mouth is a big deal in the furry realm.
Advice?
I posted a journal on FA stating that I was open for a few commissions. I got a private note from some dude:
"Hey there Bloodhound ^^ I saw your journal and would like to ask if your available for commissioning X3
It would be a full colour piece, with background, female character and clean content - maybe nude - and a macro theme at large scale.
Character wise is either one of mine or, how about this; your fursona as the macro? Its a thing I like to do, a twist of having the artist as the macro instead XD but of course that is up to you ^^
please let me know what ya think, thanks for your time."
Now, I have no problems drawing difference in scale - just look at all the Person/Blood art - so I thought sure, this will be fine. I replied:
"That sounds doable! It doesn't matter to me which character is featured. How were you thinking of showing off the size? Towering above trees, or something like that?"
"cool ^^
So you are ok with me commissioning a nude Bloodhound fursona romping along? XD
I was thinking of her walking along, maybe noticing and liking the feeling? Depends, how would your fursona be like if she was a big macro?
Scale wise, a bit similar to this;
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2223942/
So like buildings reach the tops of her toes.
Also how about inserts, like the linked piece, to have inserts showing close ups/pov's/angles of her paws as she walks along X3"
At this point, I realized I had to make sure I wasn't going to be screwed over. A single image is one thing, but a single page with inserts is entirely different. It's more work, and thus, it should cost more. So begins the long and frustrating process of haggling - by which I mean HE haggled and I had to stand ground.
"she probably WOULD like it. I'm totally into dollhouses and miniatures X3
That all seems doable. I do enjoy drawing Bloodhound, after all.
A color image with background and inset will run you $45. Is that comfortable for you? I can take paypal, checks, money orders, and cash (if you're not afraid to mail it)."
"I am cool with paypal, so that'd be the preffered method, I normall pay half or full after seeing a wip :3
I was thinking for 2 or 4 inserts showingt the phases of her taking a step, like one of the paw hovering over, another with the heel down, the next with the whole foot down and lastly the paw withdrawing viewed from behind showing the paw crator - lol too big to call them prints, it'd be the whole shape of the foot with deeper impressions for the pads X3
Also if and when in view, the littles would be human :3 no details are really needed except in the inserts and where her paws touch the ground, like vehicles and crushed ones and peeps - lil red splats.
hehe glad she would like it, is it ok if she was nude? And can this be private for now.
XD what would she get up to is she was at this colossal scale?"
That is a TON of detail he's describing - and the 'little red splats' is totally not my bag. This is getting out of hand, so I try to rein him in. Not to mention, he is wanting to pay only after I begin working, which is not how I work.
"Okay, let's slow down here. Including more than one inset is going to change the price. Are you sure you're not looking for more of a comic page? Also, the amount of detail you're asking for - a host of people and vehicles - is going to the change the price as well.
Two other things to mention: It is in my commission policy, which you can read here (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2555961/) that payment must be made up front. I don't, however, have any problem saying the piece was commissioned anonymously.
Please let me know ASAP what you want to do. I'm sure we can work something out!"
"Alrighty. Lets have the main piece with 2 inserts anyway, like the link image I showed ya, would ya do that for 45?
Also how much would it be for a bit more detail?
Fair enough in regards to your policy, but I have been played with before so its usually my own policy to work that way, as long as we have good communication then I see no problem with paying ya upfront."
Really, I can't blame the guy for wanting to get his money's worth. And I can't blame him for not wanting to get ripped off.
"I don't blame you. I had to change my policy after being, for lack of a better word, stood up several times. It's a mess, isn't it? Please feel assured that I'm not going to snatch your money and ditch.
For the image like Kacey did for you, I'd charge $50. Pumped-up detail on stuff will put it at $60, and I'll include shipping for that price, if you'd like the original."
"Fair enough ^^
but can't you accept half upfront then the rest after a wip? :3 also this is a traditional piece? Then yes, I would love to have the original ^^
How much would it be with one insert?"
Okay, now I'm getting pissed. I have stated that MY policy is payment up front. ALL payment. He approached ME for art. He should be ready and willing to play by MY rules.
"It can be colored either in marker or digitally, but there will be, at the very least, a physical drawing.
For one inset in the image, it will be $45. If you'd like the art afterwards as well, it will be $50.
And I'm afraid I can't be budged on my payment policy. I do understand your point of view, but it is not how I do things. (I hope that didn't come off snarky or pissy)"
"ok, lol no ya didn't come off as that ^^ I respect the ways ya work and such.
ok then, as soon as your paid how long till I see a wip from ya? no rush, just wanna know :3
would it be 50 with 2 inserts and detail?"
"I'm pretty quick when it comes to sketching, so you can expect to see something within the week.
And yes, $50 for two insets, and I'll do my best to crush the buildings and vehicles :3
My paypal is kimkirkdorfer[at]gmail.com and if you could send it as 'personal', paypal won't snipe any fees off it.
Thanks!"
Paypal notifies me that payment has been sent, but is 'pending' until June 18th. I let him know this, and that I'll start as soon as payment clears. Which it eventually does, and I get to work. I actually do some homework before this, looking at aerial maps and googling the Louisville river front, just to make it a little more fun for me. I sketch something up for him, two different mock-ups, and send it along. Days pass, and no word. I don't know if he hasn't checked his email or what, so I note him on FA to please go check his email. This was his reply:
"Hey there ^^
This is looking alright. However her scale is a bit to small for my liking. I think the scale where her paw is wider than the ohio river sounds better to me X3
So the main image is kinda ok, but not quite what I had in mind; I was thinking of her actively stepping down on part of a tiny city; looking down at the city as she goes along; lol she could have stepped on the *small* river ohio and its water infills a big macro-paw print XD
Anyway, that's what I had in mind; scale X3 increase it please if its not a problem X3"
Fair enough, my bad, he wants smaller scale and that's no big issue. It's cool, really. I do another one, with the buildings the size of toes, and Bloodhound more fleshed out than in the first image. Then this:
"hey there ^^
This is looking better :) That is the kinda scale I was thinking about c:
But I am starting to think about the character - lol I knew she was pretty rounded X3 but thats pretty rounded XD
I would like her right foot to be fully planted on the ground :3
Its looking good lol a few reservations about her build XD"
So NOW I've sent him three - THREE - sketches of macro naked Bloodhound and he has NOW decided he doesn't want to use her because she's "too round"?
Please don't get me wrong; I'm not offended that my character is too fat for him. What DOES bother me is that he ASKED for Bloodhound, clearly he's seen the art of her, he KNEW she was an overweight character. If he didn't want that, he should not have asked.
At this point, I want out. From the get-go, arguing over price and payment, it has been nothing but a hassle. I have a feeling I'm going to put more work into this than the $50 he paid, and that neither of us is really going to be satisfied in the end.
I've never refunded money and dropped a project before. I've declined projects, but that was before payment was made or even talked about. This is new territory for me, and I worry about how it's going to affect my reputation. Word of mouth is a big deal in the furry realm.
Advice?