pre-emptive commentangeariaOctober 25 2011, 01:30:01 UTC
actually KILLED WITH FIRE by one of the show's decent fathers
IS THIS JOHN LOVE I SPY? COME TO MY BOSOM
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because becoming a vampire was just so easy in comparison to the terrible experience of finding out about and becoming a werewolf
See, this makes me wonder if becoming a hybrid makes it EASIER to be part werewolf. Vampires vs. werewolves -- it's all about strategic puncturing vs. out-of-control wrath. Maybe it helps?
I love your points about the generational dynamics. This show gets family and fucked up psychology and how we keep recreating our formative traumas -- are often irresistibly drawn to them because that's our ~normal~.
I also think he’s…faking most of it, the way both Damon and Elena admit to having done throughout the episode.
Riiight.
The doppelganger is simply too powerful a weapon, tailor-made for the wrong hands. But nobody wants to kill her.
ELENA IS GLORY?
Because: it’s always gonna be Stefan!I'm not so sure. If that's true, then they'll have failed to deconstruct the shit out of it. Which
( ... )
Re: pre-emptive commentpocochinaOctober 25 2011, 03:43:28 UTC
IT IS MOST CERTAINLY JOHN LOVE. He is fantastic. Even aside from the KILLING ALPHA MALE DOUCHEBAGS WITH FIRE AND NOW I AM SPOILED FOR LIFE AND NOT JUST BY HIS PRETTY FACE. I think - he was sixteen when she was born. He couldn't be a real parent! But he did the best he could, even from such a distance that she didn't know or much like him. He didn't even burden her with the knowledge that he was her father; he gave up everything including his life to give her a chance.
I'm not so sure. If that's true, then they'll have failed to deconstruct the shit out of it. Which is what it seems like they're invested in doing...
I mean, I don't think it matters if that's actually true, so much as Damon and Elena will both always believe it on some level. So whatever's between them is dependent on Stefan being disqualified somehow or other.
And then she'll bitch, "Don't try that again. Or at least ask first. A girl likes to be wooed."
We talk a lot about how the show deals with the way abuse replicates itself in different ways - Damon and the way he externalizes the destabilization caused by Guiseppe’s and Katherine’s undermining; Stefan and the way he replicates his pattern of favored submission with his father, then Katherine, and now Klaus. But oh, it's brilliantly done with Tyler, too.
AGREEEEEEEEE. This is why I've always loved Tyler. Well, even when I disliked him in early S1, I just sat back and went, "yep. solid cycle of abuse story, bro."
Here is a thing I love about this show: that for all the violence and status issues and psychological damage, there was exactly one alpha male douchebag, and he was (a) not romanticized, but not so demonized that his hold over his family was ignored, (b) called out by the BAMF nerd Ric, and best of all, (c) actually KILLED WITH FIRE by one of the show's decent fathers.
Ooh, FASCINATING THOUGHTS. Will have to ponder more.
The ”you have to kill someone” clause is a fantastic metaphor for this, that to turn abuse into
( ... )
Oooooh, I love all your Tyler thoughts! I really haven't spent any time analyzing him (too many other lovably dysfunctional characters stealing my attention), so thanks for doing the work for me. :)
He feels grateful to Klaus, rather than angry, because becoming a vampire was just so easy in comparison to the terrible experience of finding out about and becoming a werewolf.
THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Way more sense than, say, some random vampire mythology that wasn't ever a part of the show before now EVEN THOUGH DAMON IS THE WALKING EMBODIMENT OF LOYALTY TO ONE'S SIRE.
I want Tyler to break the cycle, really, to acknowledge his past as formative but to move beyond it, to survive and grow stronger by choosing to become something a little bit different. You know, like a hybrid.
YES. I want this, too. And not just because I can't take anymore of d-bag Tyler, and not just because Caroline's in love with him and Caroline deserves THE BEST. Though those are also important reasons.
Damon and Elena can never be about Damon and Elena;
( ... )
THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Way more sense than, say, some random vampire mythology that wasn't ever a part of the show before now EVEN THOUGH DAMON IS THE WALKING EMBODIMENT OF LOYALTY TO ONE'S SIRE.
ahahaha, Damon Salvatore projection bullshit EVERYWHERE. I'm okay with it coming out of nowhere, because, of course Damon would keep that under his hat until he had someone else to put it on.
not just because Caroline's in love with him and Caroline deserves THE BEST
THIS IS REASON ENOUGH, OF COURSE. But I agree, I want Tyler to work his shit out.
I don't see how Damon and Elena have a relationship that isn't centered around Stefan. I mean, try to imagine it - what exactly would D/E look like without Stefan?
OK, I've been reading Emmie's comments above and...adjusting my view, a bit. I feel like Damon and Elena's relationship right now (and whatever r/ship they have in the near future) is pretty much All About Stefan--but I have to wonder how much of that is because they make it that way. Like, the training scene--Damon initiates ~a moment~ and then ends it by bringing up his brother. And Elena justifies hanging out with Damon as much as she does on the grounds of their Save Stefan Mission. It's like, this very conscious enabling of the status quo? At some point it all just becomes a big excuse NOT to face the "what are we?" question. Because 1) Elena straight up can't handle the idea that it might not always be all about Stefan, since that would mean a total breaking down of her worldview, which she needs to PROTECT for her own sanity; and 2) Damon can't handle getting what
( ... )
Ooh, great post. I really like your Stefan analysis in particular. There are a lot of parallels with Season 1, and it's really interesting the way the show has kind of twisted Stefan's behaviour - like you said, drawing out his flaws.
thank you! Yeah, I think the compelled-bite is pretty clearly turning out to be a red herring from the issues that are really being explored now, which I think has a lot of potential.
One of the things I like so very much about you is the way you can take a character I don't care about and while I'm reading what you've written, you make me care about that character. Because I do not have Tyler feelings. Really at all. I'm basically only interested in him as he affects Caroline. AND YET I READ THIS AND I ACTUALLY CARED. Such are your powers.
I love all your thinky thoughts always. I would quote things back at you, but I would be quoting back half of the post, so: THOUGHTS ON ELENA! THOUGHTS ON STEFAN! THOUGHTS ON DAMON! SO MUCH LOOOOOVE.
crack-theory that he is the Originals’ father
For some reason I was just assuming he was another brother, but I like your theory SO MUCH BETTER. OMG. I want lots more of the siblings! And the Original Petrova OMG.
Katherine cannot be dead. I refuse to allow her to be dead. That would be HORRIBLE.
This made me smile so much, thank you! I find a lot more joy in characters once I've talked it out, I guess? So I'm happy to hear it can BRING the joy as well.
I don't think they'll ever kill off Katherine, if only because it'd be a waste of an antagonist they don't have to cast. And in an anticlimactic way like that? I can't see why they'd bother.
Comments 43
IS THIS JOHN LOVE I SPY? COME TO MY BOSOM
---
because becoming a vampire was just so easy in comparison to the terrible experience of finding out about and becoming a werewolf
See, this makes me wonder if becoming a hybrid makes it EASIER to be part werewolf. Vampires vs. werewolves -- it's all about strategic puncturing vs. out-of-control wrath. Maybe it helps?
I love your points about the generational dynamics. This show gets family and fucked up psychology and how we keep recreating our formative traumas -- are often irresistibly drawn to them because that's our ~normal~.
I also think he’s…faking most of it, the way both Damon and Elena admit to having done throughout the episode.
Riiight.
The doppelganger is simply too powerful a weapon, tailor-made for the wrong hands. But nobody wants to kill her.
ELENA IS GLORY?
Because: it’s always gonna be Stefan!I'm not so sure. If that's true, then they'll have failed to deconstruct the shit out of it. Which ( ... )
Reply
*snerk*
Although, technically, I think Elena is Dawn in this scenario. Powerful weapon, used for evil, too dangerous to live, etc. etc.
Reply
I guess if Bonnie were the one to take out Elena, it would be like Buffy smothering Dawn with a pillow in her dreams. "I killed Dawn."
Reply
I'm not so sure. If that's true, then they'll have failed to deconstruct the shit out of it. Which is what it seems like they're invested in doing...
I mean, I don't think it matters if that's actually true, so much as Damon and Elena will both always believe it on some level. So whatever's between them is dependent on Stefan being disqualified somehow or other.
And then she'll bitch, "Don't try that again. Or at least ask first. A girl likes to be wooed."
hee!
Reply
AGREEEEEEEEE. This is why I've always loved Tyler. Well, even when I disliked him in early S1, I just sat back and went, "yep. solid cycle of abuse story, bro."
Here is a thing I love about this show: that for all the violence and status issues and psychological damage, there was exactly one alpha male douchebag, and he was (a) not romanticized, but not so demonized that his hold over his family was ignored, (b) called out by the BAMF nerd Ric, and best of all, (c) actually KILLED WITH FIRE by one of the show's decent fathers.
Ooh, FASCINATING THOUGHTS. Will have to ponder more.
The ”you have to kill someone” clause is a fantastic metaphor for this, that to turn abuse into ( ... )
Reply
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He feels grateful to Klaus, rather than angry, because becoming a vampire was just so easy in comparison to the terrible experience of finding out about and becoming a werewolf.
THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Way more sense than, say, some random vampire mythology that wasn't ever a part of the show before now EVEN THOUGH DAMON IS THE WALKING EMBODIMENT OF LOYALTY TO ONE'S SIRE.
I want Tyler to break the cycle, really, to acknowledge his past as formative but to move beyond it, to survive and grow stronger by choosing to become something a little bit different. You know, like a hybrid.
YES. I want this, too. And not just because I can't take anymore of d-bag Tyler, and not just because Caroline's in love with him and Caroline deserves THE BEST. Though those are also important reasons.
Damon and Elena can never be about Damon and Elena; ( ... )
Reply
THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Way more sense than, say, some random vampire mythology that wasn't ever a part of the show before now EVEN THOUGH DAMON IS THE WALKING EMBODIMENT OF LOYALTY TO ONE'S SIRE.
ahahaha, Damon Salvatore projection bullshit EVERYWHERE. I'm okay with it coming out of nowhere, because, of course Damon would keep that under his hat until he had someone else to put it on.
not just because Caroline's in love with him and Caroline deserves THE BEST
THIS IS REASON ENOUGH, OF COURSE. But I agree, I want Tyler to work his shit out.
Reply
OK, I've been reading Emmie's comments above and...adjusting my view, a bit. I feel like Damon and Elena's relationship right now (and whatever r/ship they have in the near future) is pretty much All About Stefan--but I have to wonder how much of that is because they make it that way. Like, the training scene--Damon initiates ~a moment~ and then ends it by bringing up his brother. And Elena justifies hanging out with Damon as much as she does on the grounds of their Save Stefan Mission. It's like, this very conscious enabling of the status quo? At some point it all just becomes a big excuse NOT to face the "what are we?" question. Because 1) Elena straight up can't handle the idea that it might not always be all about Stefan, since that would mean a total breaking down of her worldview, which she needs to PROTECT for her own sanity; and 2) Damon can't handle getting what ( ... )
Reply
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I love all your thinky thoughts always. I would quote things back at you, but I would be quoting back half of the post, so: THOUGHTS ON ELENA! THOUGHTS ON STEFAN! THOUGHTS ON DAMON! SO MUCH LOOOOOVE.
crack-theory that he is the Originals’ father
For some reason I was just assuming he was another brother, but I like your theory SO MUCH BETTER. OMG. I want lots more of the siblings! And the Original Petrova OMG.
Katherine cannot be dead. I refuse to allow her to be dead. That would be HORRIBLE.
Reply
I don't think they'll ever kill off Katherine, if only because it'd be a waste of an antagonist they don't have to cast. And in an anticlimactic way like that? I can't see why they'd bother.
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