since I've been tempted to get into it three times in the past 24 hours

[pocochina]

I really dislike feeling like this is necessary because (a) it is tedious as fuck and (b) I am a strong proponent of the idea that authorial intent is of little to no value in discussing a text. (It’s kind of surreal having this conversation around a narrative which went out of its way to challenge the idea that the voice of the author should

Comments

[obsessive_a101]

I am continuing to "bookmark" all your SPN meta until a time in which I am adequately mentally fortified to actually catch up. That said, I read without expanding the cuts to avoid the spoilers, and your meta on authorial intent and it's purpose (or non-purpose as the case may be) in fandom discussion of a work is really interesting. I also jumped to the tumblr link regarding actors's input, and I have NO IDEA what happened or what's going on, but interestingly, it brought to mind THIS interesting segment of a con report (re: BSG) from a few years ago, and it's an interesting look at the way the dynamics of interpretation between not only writing/show-production/actors/fans, but also the splits in outlook between EACH of those sections when it comes to topics regarding abuse/uncomfortable truths.

[pocochina]

Such an important point, that there are dozens of "authors" to take into account and a lot of them can disagree about big things.

[obsessive_a101]

"disagree about big things" is probably putting it lightly. ;)

LOL - but yes, each of them would bring their own personal experiences (as well as their own biases - acknowledged or not, known or unknown) and with as many nuances as a medium like television provides, and EVEN IF they did have a singular hive mind determination on where and what they were going to do, it's hard to say that they will still communicate the same message/or-whatever to the millions of people watching who each have their own experiences to draw on and etc. It's a two-way direction, and unbelievably unpredictable, so... yep. :)

[ellie_234]

Jared as played Sam for 9 yrs to talk as if the actor should keep quiet and not speak about that character is utter nonsense. If you think season 9 is great that is fine I personally but up there with season 7 but the rest of your comments are not ones I go along with sorry this is one of the rare times you and I do not see eye to eye on.

[pocochina]

Jared as played Sam for 9 yrs to talk as if the actor should keep quiet and not speak about that character is utter nonsense

I did not say the actor should not speak about the character. What I said was, his opinion is equally as valid as anyone else's, and just like anyone else, when he says something gross like "a survivor who tries to draw a boundary with their abuser is just being a poopyhead and causing trouble," he should be told to knock it off.

[ellie_234]

Why because you do not agree . Just because we see Dean in a certain way does not mean he does , he is not speaking from our view so therefore must temper his opinions as such. I did not take issue with anything he said because I keep that in mind and do not think he should not voice something I may not like. He has not read this journal or our opinions on Sam,s relationship with Dean , so no I do not think he needs to knock it off anymore than I think Jensen should regardless of my own personal views.

[pocochina]

This is not a simple difference of opinion. If he had taken a position on whether or not he likes the bunker, or whether he thinks long arcs or one-off episodes are better, or whether he thinks Sam should get a crew cut, that would be about opinion. The abusive nature of the power dynamic between Sam and Dean is not subject to debate. Sociologists and social workers have made available to the world multiple tools for us to spot and assess abusive relationships and Dean's behavior fits that pattern. Their statements are incorrect in the way it would be incorrect if Michael C. Hall and Julie Benz went around telling people that Dexter wasn't really a murderer, or if the BSG cast swore up and down that the Cylon's didn't really commit genocide, or if Aaron Paul tried to convince us that Walt wasn't really a drug dealer

[ellie_234]

If you do not think the actors should have input into their characters that is fine but again not one I agree with. I am not part of the actors should be seen and not heard brigade and never will be and esp in this case as Sam was not treated very well in season 9 .

[pocochina]

If you do not think the actors should have input into their characters that is fine but again not one I agree with

This isn't even tangentially related to anything in the post.