in response to dana's quotes(or simply because I thought of it.)

[poetic_whim]

I would argue, (of course I would I love to argue) that the idea of walls and bounderies and restrictions being a new thing, a thing of our culture, delveloped over the years, is bullshit. The stupid power trips, nonsensical rules, lies and bounderies, those are that basic animal nature shining through, because what could be more natural then

Comments

[raegan]

Not at all. Segregating and isolating oneself is hardly the most natural thing (in most scenarios). Very few animals actually travel alone and those that travel in packs dont do it because of a "selfish survival instinct," they do it because it works for them. A pack of lions raises a cub. They are often grooming each other, which is a way of showing affection, and they certainly do not have to groom each other to survive. Many creatures who do not travel in packs, lone wolves for example, are only travelling outside of a pack because the pack refused them, not the other way around

[poetic_whim]

awesome, I love it.
now: when I say selfish survival instinct, and you say 'it works for them' that is essentially the same thing. There is safety in numbers. All are hoping they can run just a little bit faster then another one so as not to get killed, or want a share in the meat they could not neccisarily have gotten for themselves. It is not (or rarely) out of some wish to be beneficial to others. "a pack of lions raise a cub" if you read back, you'll see I did make some allowance for maternal instinct, the instinct to procreate and have the species survive. many animals groom each other as a way of establishing social order. in monkeys for instance, the youngest or weakest groom the next monkey up in rank, wich then grooms the next money up, and so on and so forth, re-enforcing the hierarchy, the rules. I will continue this in a moment.

[raegan]

I don't think they are capable of that kind of want. While they are intelligent, they aren't at that kind of level, and in fact, many doubt their brains are advanced enough to feel pain. They arent hoping or thinking, they're just running.

[poetic_whim]

thats why it's called instinct.

[poetic_whim]

we're talking animals here, not humans. thats what I was trying to say. many humans have gotten past that and developed more complex reasons for wanting to be with poeple or without them

[wearealldamaged]

hmm, i think you and Dana are talking about different sorts of rules
i'll need a bit of time to figure out how to phrase it all though, as not sleeping friday and saturday has left my coherency in less then working order

[wearealldamaged]

what Dana's quotes were about (i believe) weren't so much to the laws you refer to (i think) that keep our society in a state of order, but to the unjust laws and unwritten rules of our society, the psychological cages that we allow our minds to be put in, the way we allow society to think for us because it's easier that way
it's not so much about removing all the laws, that would certainly lead to a state of anarchy, because people are so use to the rules they haven't developed their own common sense to tell them how to behave, and why would they? they allready have laws and rules to do that for them
however if peoples minds are never opened, our society will never evolve to that point where people are smart enought to not need to be told what to do and how to act