I agree that episode 5 was the darkest, most hopeless thing I have ever seen. I didn't recognize Jack Harkness in this episode and we've lost the character I loved the most, so even if Torchwood goes on in some incarnation, I doubt if I'll be watching it.
I seriously don't want to be part of a world that would make bargains with the devil like this for the good of the all. I wept at the end for the hopelessness as much as the loss.
'The injury to one, is an injury to all'. It's like they gave up on their statement of morality and bravery. Ianto promises they will not sacrifice one single solitary child, but they do in the end. CoE tells us: we have lost. It doesn't matter that the aliens didn't actually get the kids in the end. We lost as thoroughly as if they had, that is what it tells us we are. And that, that, I cannot get behind.
Re: Jack. I think, given what happened to him during CoE, his reaction was understandable and in-character. The question is whether what happened in CoE to him had any purpose, value or point, apart from allowing RTD to do with Jack what he would have loved to, but could not completely do with the Doctor: make him a martyr, a lonely god, doomed and alone and utterly broken. It's worse here, because the Doctor is a Time Lord but Jack is just a man, despite being immortal. Gah.
I'm thinking: RTD may have missed seasons 1 and 2 of Torchwood.
i think that is my main complain about (what i've seen of, which were the first and last episodes) "Children of Earth". i didn't recognize the show that i loved. Torchwood could be silly and crack and just plain bad at times but i loved it, damnit.
and i'm with you. that was too bloody hopeless. and yes, it betrays the whole Who concept in my opinion. and then on top of that Jack runs away. that was heartbreaking to see (i have to admit that Eve Myles has a way to get to me - when she cries, i cry, regardless she is playing Gwen or a supporting character in Little Dorrit).
i felt incredibly hollow after watching it. void. you might be right about the nihilism.
i'm going to go with the only postive fannish note for me: PC ANDY SURVIVED THROUGH IT ALL. omg amazement. tell me i can have my Andy/Gwen OTP delusions? Gwen can divorce Rhys. Andy would bring up that kid as it were his. no doubt.
Andy, Andy. That was one of the only moments of levity/lightness in the entireity of Day Five that worked for me. Andy watching the world end all around him, making his choice and then TAKING OFF HIS POLICE JACKET to get into the scrum against the government. Oh, Andy.
Yeah-- too hopeless, for cheap kicks. And not Doctor Who/Torchwood in any fashion. I mean, a really interesting, brave way to go, but Torchwood is incidental to this overarching political agenda.
Yeah...I felt thoroughly empty and exhausted. I think people desire honesty, and confronting the darkness, but not to be told that there's no point. Then why bother confronting the darkness in the first place?
YES. yes yes yes. ugh. i hate it when people equate angst with intelligent entertainment. i almost feel like TPTB got the order wrong in this, because it started with hugs and ended with angst, and any fan can tell you that you can have as much angst as your heart desires if it ends with hugging.
GRR ARG.
(this hasn't turned me off torchwood fanfic--i particularly hope there are fixit fics, and fics with ianto's family--but i'm pretty sure i'm never going to invest time in any show RTD does again.)
YES! ANGST THEN HUGS. SAVE HUMANITY WITH GROPING HUGS, CAPTAIN JACK!!!
I'm processing, and yeah, I'll definitely still be around for the fanfic. And you know, I think it was a great, brave series to do. Just not for established Torchwood fans. They made an incredible five-parter, but fucked us over in the process, pure and simple. (Have more thoughts about this, will articulate better later, sorry! :DD)
And uh, yeah. It doesn't have to be unremittingly bleak for it to make an emotional impact. Jeez, RTD.
It was very, very interesting, certainly. But I didn't just want a mirror held up to the darkest parts of humanity's soul. I wanted-- a way out. Surely that's the point of showing us the ugly truth-- so that we can escape it, change, better ourselves? But the way CoE ended I felt like there was no possibility of that. We are rubbish, period. Hm.
Who specials will be silly cracky fun. Though uh. Jack will be in at least one of them, and I have no idea how they're going to pull it off. Or what they're going to do to him.
The thought of even seeing Jack again after this. (especially a Jack who still feels the effects of this) is just so goddamn heartbreaking, it makes me want to cry all over again.
I am still processing, as I just finished the episodes this morning, and I keep bursting into tears for no apparent reason.
I have just read your reactions to Day 4 and Day 5 (been quite busy trying to recompose myself after that, and ranting about it myself over at my LJ), and I have to say, this is the best summary of it all that I have seen.
I'm compiling a post of other people's reviews that I like, mind if I add yours?
I'm glad that they worked for you. :) And I'm looking forward to your list-- cause fandom reactions to Days 4 and 5 were one of the only silver linings to the whole thing!
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I seriously don't want to be part of a world that would make bargains with the devil like this for the good of the all. I wept at the end for the hopelessness as much as the loss.
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Re: Jack. I think, given what happened to him during CoE, his reaction was understandable and in-character. The question is whether what happened in CoE to him had any purpose, value or point, apart from allowing RTD to do with Jack what he would have loved to, but could not completely do with the Doctor: make him a martyr, a lonely god, doomed and alone and utterly broken. It's worse here, because the Doctor is a Time Lord but Jack is just a man, despite being immortal. Gah.
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i think that is my main complain about (what i've seen of, which were the first and last episodes) "Children of Earth". i didn't recognize the show that i loved. Torchwood could be silly and crack and just plain bad at times but i loved it, damnit.
and i'm with you. that was too bloody hopeless. and yes, it betrays the whole Who concept in my opinion. and then on top of that Jack runs away. that was heartbreaking to see (i have to admit that Eve Myles has a way to get to me - when she cries, i cry, regardless she is playing Gwen or a supporting character in Little Dorrit).
i felt incredibly hollow after watching it. void. you might be right about the nihilism.
i'm going to go with the only postive fannish note for me: PC ANDY SURVIVED THROUGH IT ALL. omg amazement. tell me i can have my Andy/Gwen OTP delusions? Gwen can divorce Rhys. Andy would bring up that kid as it were his. no doubt.
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Yeah-- too hopeless, for cheap kicks. And not Doctor Who/Torchwood in any fashion. I mean, a really interesting, brave way to go, but Torchwood is incidental to this overarching political agenda.
Yeah...I felt thoroughly empty and exhausted. I think people desire honesty, and confronting the darkness, but not to be told that there's no point. Then why bother confronting the darkness in the first place?
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GRR ARG.
(this hasn't turned me off torchwood fanfic--i particularly hope there are fixit fics, and fics with ianto's family--but i'm pretty sure i'm never going to invest time in any show RTD does again.)
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I'm processing, and yeah, I'll definitely still be around for the fanfic. And you know, I think it was a great, brave series to do. Just not for established Torchwood fans. They made an incredible five-parter, but fucked us over in the process, pure and simple. (Have more thoughts about this, will articulate better later, sorry! :DD)
And uh, yeah. It doesn't have to be unremittingly bleak for it to make an emotional impact. Jeez, RTD.
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I need the Who specials to be now. That will make me feel better.
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Who specials will be silly cracky fun. Though uh. Jack will be in at least one of them, and I have no idea how they're going to pull it off. Or what they're going to do to him.
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The thought of even seeing Jack again after this. (especially a Jack who still feels the effects of this) is just so goddamn heartbreaking, it makes me want to cry all over again.
I am still processing, as I just finished the episodes this morning, and I keep bursting into tears for no apparent reason.
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I have just read your reactions to Day 4 and Day 5 (been quite busy trying to recompose myself after that, and ranting about it myself over at my LJ), and I have to say, this is the best summary of it all that I have seen.
I'm compiling a post of other people's reviews that I like, mind if I add yours?
Reply
I'm glad that they worked for you. :) And I'm looking forward to your list-- cause fandom reactions to Days 4 and 5 were one of the only silver linings to the whole thing!
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List will be here, it is still private as I compile it but it will go public today, I hope...
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