Why I don't vote

[prosto_tak]

Every four years I'm genuinely puzzled by why people vote.  I can think of a dozen reasons not to vote, and none whatsoever to do so.  Here are my dozen reasons not to vote:

1) I live in California, where the probability of my vote mattering is zero.

2) Even if I lived in a different state, the probability of my vote mattering is as close to zero as

Comments

[the_furman]

because of a whole slew of state and local issues. if this was a national-only election, i wouldn't bother.

[prosto_tak]

Well, unless you are talking about hyper-local issues, most of the same arguments apply, don't they? California has a population of 40 million people - it's still hard to make an argument that your vote counts, at least for me :-)

[the_furman]

~ California has 40 million, out of which under 20 will vote. San Francisco has under a million, out of which maybe 400,000 will vote. My district has something like 15 thousand, out of which maybe 7 will vote. I have issues that I care about on each level.

~ For the things I _really_ care about (e.g., death penalty) I have a certain multiplier effect. I'm not out campaigning, but it does come up in conversation, and I'm sure I've swayed a few people to see things my way.

~ All in all, voting, to me, is part of what a civilized person does. I don't throw trash on the street, I donate (small amounts of) money to charities I care about, I'd clean up after my dog if I had one, and I vote :) It's a little thing, but then again all of these things are little. In aggregate they add up.

Тут стоит культурный парк по-над речкою,
Тут гуляю и плюю только в урны я :)

or something.

[inostranka]

О, вот ппкс!

[yelya]

If you were a voter in Florida in 2000, would you still think that your vote does not count? :)
I guess my vote is more important than your vote! Because it counts! :)
Of course, if it was only presidential elections, I would not vote. We have not had a single presidential ad here in MA (xlyup-xlyup, they don't love us!). However, we have a number of interesting ballot questions this year, and a close senatorial race.

[prosto_tak]

Like I said, even the election in Florida was decided by at least hundreds of votes. So no, my vote would not count still :)

"Interesting ballot questions" - sure. I find elections interesting, that's true. I follow them more than the vast majority of people who vote, I'm sure. It's just that i don't see a reason to vote just because I find them interesting :)

[karial]

Марк, у меня к этому вопросу экзистенциальный вопрос. Важно не то, повлияет ли с точки зрения статистики, а то, что лично с твоей точки зрения ты сделал все от тебя зависящее, даже если это ни на что не повлияло. Плюс я слишком долго боролась за свои права тут, включающие в себя право голосовать, чтобы им бросаться.

На эту тему: мне как-то старенькая англичанка сказала - давно, когда я жила в России и объясняла ей, что не голосую, потому что не хочу участвовать в спектакле с их методами подсчета:
- Наши бабушки так долго боролись за право голосовать, что я просто им должна этим правом пользоваться.

Как ты понимаешь, и в ее, и в моем случае - выбор личный (как любой экзистенциальный выбор...читайте Сартра) - а значит ни в коем случае не означающий попытку навязать его другим.

[prosto_tak]

Я тоже никому ничего не хочу навязать, но пара мыслей по поводу:

Важно не то, повлияет ли с точки зрения статистики, а то, что лично с твоей точки зрения ты сделал все от тебя зависящее, даже если это ни на что не повлияло

См. пункт 12. Если мы действительно про "сделал все, от тебя зависящее", то явно сделать можно сильно больше, чем проголосовать

Наши бабушки так долго боролись за право голосовать, что я просто им должна этим правом пользоваться.

Тоже не очень очевидно, почему. Совсем глупый пример: бабушки в разных странах боролись за право делать аборты, и это очень важное право. Но никто же не станет призывать женщин пользоваться этим правом только по этой причине?

Наверное я, как либертарианец, хоть и умеренный, отношусь ко всему, связанному с госудраством, как к абортам - safe, legal, and rare :)

[nnnataly]

Я тоже голосую. хотя, мой голос тоже ничего не определяет. Голосую, чтобы проголосовать за пропозишионз. Голосую обычно по почте.
Но в принципе да, голосование на президентских выборах превратилось из "голосую за этого кандидата, т.к. он мне нравится" в "голосую за меньшее зло из двух". Но я вообше глубоко убеждена, что у центристов (к коим я себя отношу) выбора вообше практически нет и ни одного из кандидатов не интересует наше мнение.

[sliva_lv]

Марк: Like many other things, democracy works only if most people cooperate ... but I guess you knew that already.

Re local elections, and especially "direct democracy": not that I know anything about anything, but I've heard that usually the issues on the ballot are much clearer -- i.e., you would have an opinion, and probably a strong one. (but sure, on CA-wide ballot one vote won't count much.)

[prosto_tak]

"democracy works only if most people cooperate" - this is a general statement, which may or may not be true. I doubt most people would even agree on what "democracy works' means. Regardless, I can't change what most people do. I can only change what one person, I, do.

The issues on the ballot in local elections are ANYTHING BUT clear. I encourage you to read through propositions on this year's ballot, and tell me how a bunch of folks can make any sense out of them whatsoever. If ever the law of unintended consequences needed a poster child, "direct democracy" would be it.

[sliva_lv]

Re "democracy works" (or not) -- I meant, это как бросать ли бычки в урну, если вокруг уже слегка намусорено.

(What it means for democracy to work -- I have no idea. Yes, speaking in ill-defined terms, for the lack of better-defined terms. One reason I prefer to do math.)

Re local elections: I said "issues", not "wordings". Indeed, "direct democracy" is ridiculous. Presumably because many, if not most, propositions are ridiculous if you think carefully. But then, like I said, the issue is clear.

[sliva_lv]

Oh, and i forgot to add: I don't actually vote for this country. not yet :).

I blew a couple of chances to vote for another country, but this was sheer laziness (in the face of some non-trivial logistical difficulties). I think I voted once, and then the issue was very clear and dear to me.

[janya]

Presidential election aside, I know my vote is going to be one of very few informed votes - in many local races.

Voting for third-party candidates is important - it's the best way to let the small party or the independent person on the ballot know s/he matters. I think a multi-party system is a good thing, and the only way to ever get there is to vote for someone other than a Democrat or Republican nominee - because there is not enough people voting for them, and every vote counts.

[prosto_tak]

I know my vote is going to be one of very few informed votes - in many local races.

What's so great about this? The election is decided by the uninformed masses. Why do you feel like you want your informed vote to be drowned by them?

Voting for third-party candidates is important - it's the best way to let the small party or the independent person on the ballot know s/he matters.

So far we collectively show them that they do not matter - they hardly ever get any meaningful votes. Again, the issue with 3rd party candidates is 1) There is nobody I like, either 2) They are completely unelectable. I can as well "Like" their Facebook page - it'll have the same effect :)

[janya]

> The election is decided by the uninformed masses.
Uninformed masses vote more or less randomly, and the election is decided by a small portion of votes cast by those who care. I think I read about this in "The Myth of the Rational Voter: Why Democracies Choose Bad Policies" by Bryan Douglas Caplan.

> I can as well "Like" their Facebook page - it'll have the same effect
You can "Like" as many parties as there are, but you've only got one vote - and giving that in support of a small outfit is very meaningful to both the party you're voting for, and the candidates who do not get your vote. By all means, vote for a candidate or a party you like, or at least can stomach - they need the support and encouragement, especially if they're not going to win. "Like" on their FB page is OK too.