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Короткие встречи
Продолжая дискуссию с nedosionist.
Ключевой вопрос в отношениях Трампа и Путина - гипотеза об их тайной встрече, предположительно во время поездки Трампа в Москву.
Рассмотрим свидетельские показания.
Интервью MSNBC, ноябрь 2013. На прямой вопрос "Do you have a relationship with Vladimir Putin?" Трамп дает развернутый ответ:
I do a have relationship. And I can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing here today. He's probably very interested in what you and I am saying today, and I'm sure he's going to be seeing it in some form. But I do have a relationship with him. Look, he's done a very good job in terms of what he represents and who he's representing. If you look at what he's done with Syria, if you look at so many of the different things, he has really eaten our president's lunch. Let's not kid ourselves. He's done an amazing job. ... He's put himself at the forefront of the world as a leader in a short period of time. ... I think that Putin has done an amazing job of showing certain leadership that our people have not been able to match.
Интервью Fox News, aпрель 2014.
Interestingly, I own the Miss Universe pageant. We just left Moscow. [Putin] could not have been nicer. He was so nice and so everything. But you have to give him credit that what he’s doing for that country in terms of their world prestige is very strong.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/trump-called-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-so-smart-in-2014
Радио-интервью Michael Savage, октябрь 2015.
“Have you ever met Vladimir Putin?” Savage asks.
“Yes,” Trump answers, emphatically.
“You have?” Savage follows up.
“Yes, a long time ago. We got along great, by the way.”
Savage then asked, “If you win the presidency, do you feel you can do business with Vladimir?”
“Yes, I do. I think I would get along very well. I had the Miss Universe pageant, believe it or not, in Moscow two years ago. I got many of the Russian leaders, the top people in Russia, honestly. … These are people, they are looking to do things.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tape-shows-trump-contradicting-himself-again-on-putin-meeting-213245455.html
Интервью ABC, июль 2016.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about Russia. You made a lot of headlines with Russia this week.
What exactly is your relationship with Vladimir Putin?
TRUMP: I have no relationship to -- with him. I have no relationship with him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you have no relationship with Putin, then why did you say in 2013, I do have a relationship. In 2014, I spoke...
TRUMP: Because he has said nice things about me over the years. I remember years ago, he said something -- many years ago, he said something very nice about me. I said something good about him when Larry King was on. This was a long time ago. And I said he is a tough cookie or something to that effect.
He said something nice about me. This has been going on. We did "60 Minutes" together. By the way, not together-together, meaning he was probably shot in Moscow...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he was in Moscow...
TRUMP: -- and I was shot in New York.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- you were in New York. But that's the thing.
TRUMP: No, just so you understand, he said very nice things about me, but I have no relationship with him. I don't -- I've never met him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet you said for three years, '13, '14 and '15, that you did have a relationship with him.
TRUMP: No, look, what -- what do you call a relationship?
I mean he treats me...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm asking you.
TRUMP: -- with great respect. I have no relationship with Putin. I don't think I've ever met him. I never met him. I don't think I've ever met him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You would know if you did.
TRUMP: I think so.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I mean if he...
TRUMP: Yes, I think so. So I've -- I don't think I've ever met him. I mean if he's in the same room or something. But I don't think so.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You never spoke to him on the phone?
TRUMP: I've been in Moscow. I didn't meet him in Moscow.
Where?
STEPHANOPOULOS: You've never spoken to him on the phone?
TRUMP: I have never spoken to him on the phone, no. I've speak -- I've spoken -- when we had the Miss Universe contest a number of years ago, we had Miss Universe in Moscow, in the Moscow area, he was invited. He wanted to come. He wasn't able to come.
That would have been a time when I would have met him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But a -- I just want to clear this up, because you did say on three different occasions you had a relationship with him. Now you say there is not.
TRUMP: Well, I don't know what it means by having a relationship. I mean he was saying very good things about me, but I don't have a relationship with him. I didn't meet him. I haven't spent time with him. I didn't have dinner with him. I didn't go hiking with him. I don't know -- and I wouldn't know him from Adam except I see his picture and I would know what he looks like.
http://abc.go.com/shows/this-week-with-george-stephanopoulos/episode-guide/2017-02/26-president-trump-faces-more-questions-about-campaigns-alleged-russia-ties
Что не так в этом отрицании?
1. "I remember years ago, he said something -- many years ago, he said something very nice about me."
Нет никакого свидетельства того, что Путин что-либо говорил про Трампа "many years ago". Трамп очевидно врет, чтобы представить дело так, как будто он просто возвращает комплимент. Первое публичное высказывание Путина о Трампе было в декабре 2015, что не вяжется с многочисленными хвалебными высказываниями Трампа о Путине до того.
С высказыванием Путина про Трампа тоже не все просто. Его слова ( "Он яркий очень человек, талантливый, без всяких сомнений. Не наше дело определять его достоинства, это дело избирателей США, но он абсолютный лидер президентской гонки.") были сразу же переданы агентством Interfax
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/485609
но отсутствуют в официальной стенограмме пресс-конференции
http://kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/50971
2. Трамп три раза повторяет "I don't think I've ever met him.", на что Стефанополус вынужден заметить "You would know if you did." Трамп дает путанное объяснение: "I mean if he's in the same room or something. But I don't think so."
Как можно находиться в одной комнате с Путиным и его там не заметить? Похоже на попытку "plausible deniability": если вдруг всплывет информация о встрече, эту встречу можно назвать случайной.
3. "Well, I don't know what it means by having a relationship. <...> I haven't spent time with him. I didn't have dinner with him. I didn't go hiking with him."
Тут появляются какие-то совершенно излишние детали. Кто что-либо говорил про dinner или hiking?
Таким образом отрицание Трампа в июльском интервью, несмотря на его категоричность, может также усиливать подозрения.
Ключевой вопрос в отношениях Трампа и Путина - гипотеза об их тайной встрече, предположительно во время поездки Трампа в Москву.
Рассмотрим свидетельские показания.
Интервью MSNBC, ноябрь 2013. На прямой вопрос "Do you have a relationship with Vladimir Putin?" Трамп дает развернутый ответ:
I do a have relationship. And I can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing here today. He's probably very interested in what you and I am saying today, and I'm sure he's going to be seeing it in some form. But I do have a relationship with him. Look, he's done a very good job in terms of what he represents and who he's representing. If you look at what he's done with Syria, if you look at so many of the different things, he has really eaten our president's lunch. Let's not kid ourselves. He's done an amazing job. ... He's put himself at the forefront of the world as a leader in a short period of time. ... I think that Putin has done an amazing job of showing certain leadership that our people have not been able to match.
Click to viewИнтервью Fox News, aпрель 2014.
Interestingly, I own the Miss Universe pageant. We just left Moscow. [Putin] could not have been nicer. He was so nice and so everything. But you have to give him credit that what he’s doing for that country in terms of their world prestige is very strong.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/trump-called-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-so-smart-in-2014
Радио-интервью Michael Savage, октябрь 2015.
“Have you ever met Vladimir Putin?” Savage asks.
“Yes,” Trump answers, emphatically.
“You have?” Savage follows up.
“Yes, a long time ago. We got along great, by the way.”
Savage then asked, “If you win the presidency, do you feel you can do business with Vladimir?”
“Yes, I do. I think I would get along very well. I had the Miss Universe pageant, believe it or not, in Moscow two years ago. I got many of the Russian leaders, the top people in Russia, honestly. … These are people, they are looking to do things.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tape-shows-trump-contradicting-himself-again-on-putin-meeting-213245455.html
Интервью ABC, июль 2016.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about Russia. You made a lot of headlines with Russia this week.
What exactly is your relationship with Vladimir Putin?
TRUMP: I have no relationship to -- with him. I have no relationship with him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you have no relationship with Putin, then why did you say in 2013, I do have a relationship. In 2014, I spoke...
TRUMP: Because he has said nice things about me over the years. I remember years ago, he said something -- many years ago, he said something very nice about me. I said something good about him when Larry King was on. This was a long time ago. And I said he is a tough cookie or something to that effect.
He said something nice about me. This has been going on. We did "60 Minutes" together. By the way, not together-together, meaning he was probably shot in Moscow...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he was in Moscow...
TRUMP: -- and I was shot in New York.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- you were in New York. But that's the thing.
TRUMP: No, just so you understand, he said very nice things about me, but I have no relationship with him. I don't -- I've never met him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet you said for three years, '13, '14 and '15, that you did have a relationship with him.
TRUMP: No, look, what -- what do you call a relationship?
I mean he treats me...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm asking you.
TRUMP: -- with great respect. I have no relationship with Putin. I don't think I've ever met him. I never met him. I don't think I've ever met him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You would know if you did.
TRUMP: I think so.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I mean if he...
TRUMP: Yes, I think so. So I've -- I don't think I've ever met him. I mean if he's in the same room or something. But I don't think so.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You never spoke to him on the phone?
TRUMP: I've been in Moscow. I didn't meet him in Moscow.
Where?
STEPHANOPOULOS: You've never spoken to him on the phone?
TRUMP: I have never spoken to him on the phone, no. I've speak -- I've spoken -- when we had the Miss Universe contest a number of years ago, we had Miss Universe in Moscow, in the Moscow area, he was invited. He wanted to come. He wasn't able to come.
That would have been a time when I would have met him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But a -- I just want to clear this up, because you did say on three different occasions you had a relationship with him. Now you say there is not.
TRUMP: Well, I don't know what it means by having a relationship. I mean he was saying very good things about me, but I don't have a relationship with him. I didn't meet him. I haven't spent time with him. I didn't have dinner with him. I didn't go hiking with him. I don't know -- and I wouldn't know him from Adam except I see his picture and I would know what he looks like.
http://abc.go.com/shows/this-week-with-george-stephanopoulos/episode-guide/2017-02/26-president-trump-faces-more-questions-about-campaigns-alleged-russia-ties
Что не так в этом отрицании?
1. "I remember years ago, he said something -- many years ago, he said something very nice about me."
Нет никакого свидетельства того, что Путин что-либо говорил про Трампа "many years ago". Трамп очевидно врет, чтобы представить дело так, как будто он просто возвращает комплимент. Первое публичное высказывание Путина о Трампе было в декабре 2015, что не вяжется с многочисленными хвалебными высказываниями Трампа о Путине до того.
С высказыванием Путина про Трампа тоже не все просто. Его слова ( "Он яркий очень человек, талантливый, без всяких сомнений. Не наше дело определять его достоинства, это дело избирателей США, но он абсолютный лидер президентской гонки.") были сразу же переданы агентством Interfax
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/485609
но отсутствуют в официальной стенограмме пресс-конференции
http://kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/50971
2. Трамп три раза повторяет "I don't think I've ever met him.", на что Стефанополус вынужден заметить "You would know if you did." Трамп дает путанное объяснение: "I mean if he's in the same room or something. But I don't think so."
Как можно находиться в одной комнате с Путиным и его там не заметить? Похоже на попытку "plausible deniability": если вдруг всплывет информация о встрече, эту встречу можно назвать случайной.
3. "Well, I don't know what it means by having a relationship. <...> I haven't spent time with him. I didn't have dinner with him. I didn't go hiking with him."
Тут появляются какие-то совершенно излишние детали. Кто что-либо говорил про dinner или hiking?
Таким образом отрицание Трампа в июльском интервью, несмотря на его категоричность, может также усиливать подозрения.