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[puristlove]

How do big, scary corporations force anyone to do anything? (Beyond their lobbying the government for unfair laws, which would not be a problem in a libertarian government)

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Sorry, I just really can't see big business as a threat to freedom, not in the way big government is...

Comments

[ex_ilk]

I think it's blown out of proportion a lot, yes. But while agreeing with the above, I have to note that this isn't a libertarian government. And being forced to do something (which is really not possible without direct physical force, which generally means the person doing the forcing is the one "doing the DOING")I think is nearly impossible (you can die, or go to prison.. but you still have those choices in the end) and probably not the biggest problems we face regarding big corporations

[puristlove]

It's not that I don't suspect the big corporations don't do some shady things, like control government, it is that I wonder why the response to smaller government seems to be a fear that corporations would then have even more power. I see it as the opposite. They couldn't use government to influence/manipulate our spending any more, and their only real power would be financial and in marketing strategies, and there are good tools to combat both far more easily than one can combat police and armed forces if you disagree with a law...

[phoebek]

I would encourage you to consider a more critical, pluralistic, inclusive view of power, and also of freedom. Power is not just brute force -- people are too complex and intelligent for that to be the case. The question is not, Do big businesses have power over us? but What kind of power do they actually have? (and what kind of power do we actually have?)

[puristlove]

I recognize that big corporations have power in the form of media/marketing/meme spreading and many people seem to lack the tools for seeing that power for the illusion it is, but I think that power pales in comparison to the ability the government has to lock someone behind bars for disagreeing. A corporation can really only influence choice, i don't see it as having much ability to prevent that choice by imprisoning you to silence/subdue you.

And I think that ultimately, real power lies in individual choice, and choice comes from really understanding the options. Brute force, however, has the ability to truly limit those options, while other kinds of power can only disguise some of them.

I'd be interested in hearing your answers to the questions you posed, as I'm trying to gain understanding here...

[phoebek]

Power can take the form of brute force, but power that is not brute force is no illusion. Subtle power can be much more insiduous. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. The best way to oppress people is to convince them that they are free

[phoebek]

By the way, how free do you really feel? I'll tell you I don't feel all that free. Freedom is complicated

[gimacaroni]

When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.
-- P.J. O'Rourke

More crap.

[asstronaut]

Aside from libertarianism, let me throw Althusser at you