"if we had to give up everything good bc the people who made it weren't perfect, we'd starve"

[qualapec]

On a related note, I still really, really adore Joss Whedon as a writer even though a huge chunk of fandom is walking away and it's the trend du jour to talk about how awful he is:

I love lots of things with imperfect feminism. I myself am am imperfect feminist. I still just genuinely love the kinds of stories that Joss Whedon tells, the way he

Comments

[redbrunja]

sassy tl;dr, if you think the Russo brothers are any better you are kind of kidding yourself because they have the same male socialization and half the storytelling cred.

Yep. Like, I would be more willing to hear criticism of Joss** if the Russos weren't always praised as part of that statement, and am sorry, but if we've comparing Avengers 1 to Cap 2, Avengers 1 is UNQUESTIONABLY Better At Feminism than Cap 2.

**and, okay, it also depends about what happens with Ultron, because I suspect that that movie is going to leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

[qualapec]

Yep. Like, I would be more willing to hear criticism of Joss** if the Russos weren't always praised as part of that statement

I'm pretty sure everyone who says that has forgotten Cap 1 and how Peggy was great but she kept getting undercut and used "ladies" as an insult and was also the only lady (except for Natalie Dormer, and WE KNOW how that goes down).

For me, I just kind of wish it all wasn't conflated with attacking the kinds of stories Whedon tells and how he tells them. Every writer makes mistakes, but I feel like fandom just pinpoints all the wrong ones, some of them that have nothing to do with politics and just have more to do with his style of storytelling? Which bugs me, because I really idolize those beats. I love stories being sad and just a little uncomfortable but also BIG and funny and nuanced.

and, okay, it also depends about what happens with Ultron, because I suspect that that movie is going to leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I just saw it!

[redbrunja]

and, okay, it also depends about what happens with Ultron, because I suspect that that movie is going to leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I just saw it!

As did I. And frankly, after that, and despite some of the epic banter, I think I'm going to have a really fucking hard time defending/praising Joss' writing. Or at least, what he's done in the MCU.

[qualapec]

As did I. And frankly, after that, and despite some of the epic banter, I think I'm going to have a really fucking hard time defending/praising Joss' writing. Or at least, what he's done in the MCU.

Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

I mean, that's a point that my own pride does not really allow me to back down from bc I've gotten into too many fights with too many people but

you are literally right

I AGREE I just can't agree.