QotD

Sep 12, 2005 08:59

"Utopia is never more than what we are; the people in them will always be just like us." -- Jeremy Adam Smith, "The Ten Stupidest Utopias"

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Comments 15

catgirlhunterc September 12 2005, 13:17:34 UTC
Ooo, I like that quote. And that link. Might have to use the former for the writeup of the vrisht for my RPG notes...

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pathia September 12 2005, 13:33:02 UTC
You aren't helping my pessimistic aspect very much hon, and on a monday too! ;-)

It's a neat quote though, have to remember it.

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queenofstripes September 12 2005, 16:46:39 UTC
It doesn't have to be pessimistic! It's only disappointing if there's a fixed human nature, i.e. if we're always going to be this crazy. :) I'm not even talking about woo-woo transhuman stuff like restructuring brains, either. I think sanity and wisdom are skills that can be learned culture-wide, like iron-working or literacy.

After all, wisdom is just the skill of looking at things in complexity, making clear-headed and far-sighted decisions, and knowing your own biases. So that's basically just an information science problem, with a little psychology mixed in, right? How hard could it possibly be? O:)

Okay, pretty hard, probably... But by Jeremy Smith's maxim, a society comprised of decent people would be pretty decent. Even if there's no social system that's guaranteed to be sane, we can still work on achieving sanity ourselvesOf course, the idea of "universal sanity" raises all sorts of philosophical, linguistic, and social scientific questions. How the hell can anybody judge? And how can we be sure one person's vision of ( ... )

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melskunk September 12 2005, 14:15:21 UTC
Man, I love that link to pieces!
I ♥,♥, ♥ (Thank you, KT, for showin' me that) weird idea philosophies...
I assume you are familiar, BTW, with the Odd Book site?

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shizouka September 12 2005, 16:42:35 UTC
This is an extremely enlightening and facinating piece. I've been a bit facinated at the ideals of a Utopia, but some of the history behind it and its 'failures', thats very nifty to learn ( ... )

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queenofstripes September 12 2005, 16:50:09 UTC
But who wants to be the first to have their brains rewired to not allow the weight of the primitive mind to take over so easily when everyone else might not submit to it?

Remember where you're saying this, hon! ;) Don't say that too loud, or a line might form. :)

You raise a really good point about the potential vulnerability of a group that eliminates its own ability to compete in conflict. There's a nasty Prisoner's Dilemma here, where "insane" strategies may actually bring more short-term success in an "insane" society. Lots of the worldbuilding I've done with Postrodent has dealt with this whole problem, and how a "sane," trusting, pacifistic society can protect itself against exploiters. I should finally write up an article for LJ about that one of these days -- not all the answers we've come up with are real pretty. :)

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shizouka September 12 2005, 17:00:41 UTC
*smiles* Yes, it did cross my mind...

Though mind manipulation can take place on levels as little as those that allow the cognitive mind not to get derailed so easilly, to a complete revocation of fight or flight responses.

Though something that did come through my mind was the red dwarf "Justice Field"... but I'm sure a very cunning and enterprising being might find some way to exploit it by trying to put someone in a situation where they would harm another(even in red dwarf its failability is shown).

I've not seen Saw, but heard it had all the promise of a very cunning movie where one person forces others into situations where they kill or harm each other or themselves... but heard it fell very flat on its face.

Also: even Xenophobia once played a part of our primative mental defenses, though I feel it could stand a little trimming from our grey matter, might end up with fewer racist bastards that way.

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postrodent September 12 2005, 19:02:24 UTC
Man, I never knew (but should have guessed) that Le Corbusier was such a _fascist_.
I also like the "sexiest dystopias" article that's linked on that page.

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