ooc: Remus/Sirius reasonings and my take on the 'ship.
After being questioned about my 'ship after a friend of mine had asked me just why already, I decided to write this out. It's basically my reasonings behind being a supporter of Remus/Sirius. I'm also a supporter of Remus/Tonks, of course, but since that's canon I never get any WTF? expressions or questions.
Anyway, a version of this I'm going to email to her because I said I would but I figured me posting this version here wouldn't be a bad idea either. I was just going to leave it in my mun journal, but since Remus is being played as bi/gay here then it doesn't hurt, right?
I'm cutting for length 'cause haha I seriously have the same issues Remus has with rambling sometimes. >.>
Before starting to roleplay within the fandom, I always tried to steer clear of the Harry Potter 'shippers because some are either very creepy or vicious when it comes to their 'ships. I guess it's ironic I'm saying that since I'm dedicating all this time to write an explanation in this 'ship as well but I hope it doesn't quite fall in either one of those categories. >.> But if I'm writing this out it's so I can organize my thoughts better, so off we go.
As you know, I started to get into the HP fandom until Half-Blood Prince came out. That was the first hard-cover book of the series I bought, which is how I know the timing. So me, being the BIG HP fan? Not really. When my online friends would squee about whoever I'd listen, but I never let those squees steer me towards liking someone/something, let alone 'ships. I'm picky about that sort of thing, because they have to work for me in order to actually support them, you know? I like to make these decisions on my own.
'Canon references':
In Prisoner of Azkaban we met a Remus Lupin who tries to more or less put some distance between himself and other people. He's friendly with Harry, but he doesn't immediately make it known to him that he knew his parents and had been best friends with them. Twelve years of him being on his own probably did that, along with a certain guilt that he left the poor kid on his own while he mourned. Or tried to ignore/outrun the grief he felt, take your pick. My point is, Remus is the quiet professor that always has a polite smile even to the ones that could very well irritate him. Examples: Snape and Peeves. His tone tends to remain neutral, as well as his reactions. There are glimpses of his humor, but for the most part neutrality is his thing.
Then Sirius gets brought up in a conversation with Harry, and the neutrality slips, which makes Lupin's briefcase slip from his hands in mid conversation. And sure, hearing the name of the person he believes killed his best friends is probably startling, but considering the amount of times the entire Wizarding world had been hearing that name, would it really take him by that much surprise when Harry brings him up? Emotions have to be strong for Remus to show it, and there are loads of unresolved issues between the two men so of course his emotions run deep enough for them to make him react when he's caught off guard.
Now, the hug... Yes, they "embraced like brothers," but as someone once pointed out, the narrator is not exactly reliable, is it? We hear how Harry feels, and how he interprets the looks and such of others, but that's it. And, sorry, but this quote makes me believe like it's going to lead to something else:
"Professor," Harry interrupted loudly, "what's going on--?"
But he never finished the question, because what he saw made his voice die in his throat. Lupin was lowering his wand, gazing fixedly at Black. The Professor walked to Black's side, seized his wand, pulled him to his feet so that Crookshanks fell to the floor, and embraced Black like a brother.
...right. A hug. >.>
And okay, let's go with just the hug. They haven't seen each other in twelve years. The relief is there, and of course they embraced. Or, rather, Remus embraced Sirius when earlier he had trouble just reaching over to give Harry a squeeze of the shoulder to comfort him when he told him about the dementors. Remus is just not the affectionate type of guy, yet he initiates the embrace. In the movie there's even a bigger sign of something else lurking beneath the surface at the way they hug each other even before Remus finds out the whole story.
Even after their reunion at the shack, though, things aren't really resolved because how do you resolve twelve years (thirteen if you count the year when they must have doubted each other) in a few minutes and with the children and Peter in the room? Obviously we don't know how/if they resolved things at all since the books cover Harry's quest, but at one point in GoF Sirius moves in with Remus. Living together must have given them a chance to at least fix some of that gap that separated them in order to live together without suffocating each other. I can't claim what things they did/didn't do 'cause, well, this is all my theory, but I believe they must have rekindled their relationship enough for them to be comfortable around each other. Comfortable enough for Remus to move in with Sirius when he goes to Grimmauld.
So this moves us on to OotP. Remus is living with Sirius in Grimmauld. Yeah, Sirius is depressed and having trouble coping with being cooped up, but Remus himself is leaving on missions for the Order so Sirius is often alone in that house he despises so much. And let's face it, no matter how deep their feelings for each other could be, Sirius isn't the type to stay at home and wait; especially after being locked up for so many years. He's the independent type, and having to stay back and watch while Harry is in danger must have been torture. Remus must have tried his best to make things easier for him, but we also know that one person cannot be everything for someone else no matter how much you may love them. And Remus gets this, of course. He can't 'fix' Sirius or make things better how he wants to because Sirius couldn't 'fix' him or make things better when things were crappy for him in the past either.
In OotP we also see a change in Remus. His personality seems to have strengthened, and when Sirius starts arguing with Molly he's 'forceful' enough to raise his voice and make Sirius settle down. This, in my opinion, is one of my biggest signs that what they mean to each other is so much stronger and deeper than it's let on. We all have friends that complement us, sure, but for them they just...match. They complement each other. Sirius' temper gets the best of him but Remus knows how to calm him down at once. And Remus, no matter how quiet he may be, around Sirius there's a shift in his personality. He seems more comfortable to speak out and talk and take charge because, I believe, Sirius gives him a confidence that he often lacks. Why? Well... If Sirius accepted Remus despite his 'Dark creature' status, became an animagus to keep him company, and is one of the four people that first showed him what unconditional love was, then Remus knows he can be himself without worrying that Sirius is going to judge him. Which, of course, gives Remus that confidence I mentioned. He's such a Pisces and how he'd rather avoid conflict if he can, but when the argument between Molly and Sirius flares, Remus is the one that throws himself in the middle of it and makes Sirius sit back down. Again, we don't get a real glimpse into how their life at Grimmauld is like when they're alone, but - again - this is Harry's story.
When Sirius goes through the veil, Remus shatters. Completely and utterly shatters. The emotion is palpable, when we know just how hard it is for him to really display any signs of what he's feeling. But his voice breaks, and his voice "sounded as though every word was causing him pain." Sirius is gone but this time he knows (or believes) that Sirius cannot come back or escape like he did from Azkaban. I truly believe that, if it hadn't been for Harry, he would have actually gone through the veil himself with him. The only reason he stopped it was because he had to stop Harry from doing the same. Harry, Sirius and Remus had each other as their family and for them to lose him, and to witness it breaks them both in thousands of little pieces that, honestly, they can't put together. We know for sure that Harry has trouble coming to grips with it because of what is said in HBP. And Remus, at the end of OotP, he's already back to being the quiet one. Also, for Remus, while I do agree that part of why he looks and acts the way he does in HBP is because of how confused he is about Tonks' feelings for him,he's just like a fish out of water again. He spent a year and a half or so with Sirius, back to being who he had once been (or at least close enough to it) and to lose him was horrible. He lost his best friend. He lost the only person that truly knows him because of how long they had known each other and were, more or less, each other's lifelines ever since they were teenagers.
Now, if Remus and Sirius really had been together, why did Molly and Arthur (and everyone else that may have done it but I'm not remembering) insist so much on him and Tonks hooking up, right? This is the part where I point out how they would have been a homosexual couple in the 70s-80s. Plus Remus is a very, very private person and that is proven when the argument at the hospital wing happens after Dumbledore dies. Remus looks/feels obviously uncomfortable at the outburst and looks like he wants the floor to swallow him up. So him and Sirius outing themselves... I don't know. I find that hard to believe, actually. I'm sure others would have seen hints of it, but I doubt a lot of people knew for sure unless the boys confided in them.
Personal views on this:
...well this is all my personal view, I guess? But my personal reasons for liking them are simple, and why I have no problems writing Remus as gay/bi:
* They know each other since they were teens. For Remus it's his first love, because Sirius is one of the rare few that managed to break down his walls to get to his heart. And there's just something about that first love, isn't there?
* They get each other and complement each other so well. They just fit together. Both find shelter in their group of friend, but to each other they are also incredibly important as well.
* They are not perfect. At all. Either one of them, and they each made mistakes. Sirius was about to feed Severus to Moony, which is something Remus would have been furious and devastated about. But, let's face it: teenage boys are not exactly the most mature creatures in the world. Sirius would fall into this category at that time, and in a hot-headed moment then he told Severus to go to the shack. But Sirius and Remus continue being friends afterwards, so Remus obviously forgave him. At least enough to not break ties completely. Then there's also the fact that they each doubted each other; Sirius believed Remus was the traitor and Remus believed Sirius had gotten James, Lily and Peter killed. But they were in a time of war, Remus has always been the secretive one and Peter would have surely used this fact to turn people against Remus without a problem. Hell, I honestly believe Remus made it VERY easy for Peter to do that. Fast forward to twelve years later and they're older and weary, but they go back to complementing each other and being together despite it all. In other words, their love would have been strong enough for them to say "Okay, you're flawed, I'm flawed; we fucked up but what we have is not something we can just throw away this easily."
I don't play Remus as bi in most communities and completely gay in au_muses because I'm a big fan of slash. I don't mind reading slash when it's done well, but I had never ever written a slashy character at all. Curious, sure, but never someone who had actually been in a relationship with a man (or a girl with another girl) before. And maybe I'm among the few that does this, but I never set their sexuality according to my personal preference. I wait to get a 'vibe' of what their sexuality is. With Remus, when I first started writing him, I actually wasn't sure what to expect and I refused to let others influence me in writing him a certain way. And it didn't take long for me to get that 'vibe,' actually. He's at least bisexual. David Thewlis himself has said he believed he was the one that with the role of the gay wizard. True, he has said he hasn't really read the books but I'm guessing the director must have and Thewlis has also claimed that even the director agreed that Lupin was gay.
The reason I hate hate hate the "But it's not in the books!" reasoning is that that's not really a reason to rule out the possibility of Remus/Sirius. It's not in the books that Remus did fall in love with Tonks either, so is that not true then? It's not in the books that Dumbledore is gay, either, and it wasn't until JKR confirmed it. So, basically, unless you're JKR and tell me it's not possible for the two to have been in a relationship before Remus/Tonks got together, then the "it's not in the books" reasoning isn't valid. (And if JKR did in fact tell me that, I'd question other pairings that, frankly, make a lot less sense than the possible R/S >.> )
Does this mean I don't believe that Tonks and Remus could have actually fallen in love? No. But it's hard for me to believe that at thirty-seven Remus wouldn't have been in love with someone else. And since he's so picky on who he lets into his heart, can anyone REALLY see him trusting a complete stranger when he despises being shunned when they find out what he is even if he claims he's "used to it" as he says? So I'm not saying Tonks/Remus isn't possible but, frankly, I see more proof for R/S than we get for R/T. To me, and I really really do not mean to offend anyone with this, R/T got sloppily thrown together. In HBP it all started well, and I actually would've believed it if JKR would have devoted at least a page to their relationship, but we get paragraphs instead throughout DH. They go from holding hands and Remus barely coming to terms with his relationship with Tonks, but then they're married in the first few pages of DH and the mind just boggles a little. :X
Even with that, and how I believe that Tonks and Remus' relationship didn't get the explanation it deserved, I am actually a supporter of both. Really, I am. ...okay, my mun journal may reflect something else at the moment but that's me having fun with two pictures that I fell in love with. If I wrote this whole thing out it's because the 'ship has been questioned one too many times and the only reasoning I keep hearing is "but it's not in the books!"
Yes, well. Let me ask you something. Is a character not gay just because JKR didn't say "Professor Lupin, the gay werewolf, taught Harry Potter how to cast a patronus"? What is our proof that a character is straight, anyway? We all saw the reaction when Dumbledore was 'exposed' so are we really that surprised that Jo hasn't outed anyone else yet?
I'll respect any 'ship that may not make much sense to me, and it may make me cringe when it's adult-father-figures/Harry but I'm not going to flip on someone for it. I just expect the same curtesy to be extended, you know? That's why I really don't understand 'ship wars; we all have different perspectives and views and perceptions to things, so it'd be so much easier to just respect those differences and boundaries, and if there's a disagreement then disagree without flaming.
That said, I'd actually love to hear other people's thoughts on this. Neutral ground. Like I said, I don't involve myself in 'ship wars so I'm not going to unfriend anyone/be offended if you don't agree with me. If I missed something too, please let me know 'cause I wrote it at work without the books (except for PoA 'cause I left that there a few weeks ago >.> ). Just please don't use the "it's not in the books" reasoning, that is all I ask. ;)
<3,
Remus!mun
Anyway, a version of this I'm going to email to her because I said I would but I figured me posting this version here wouldn't be a bad idea either. I was just going to leave it in my mun journal, but since Remus is being played as bi/gay here then it doesn't hurt, right?
I'm cutting for length 'cause haha I seriously have the same issues Remus has with rambling sometimes. >.>
Before starting to roleplay within the fandom, I always tried to steer clear of the Harry Potter 'shippers because some are either very creepy or vicious when it comes to their 'ships. I guess it's ironic I'm saying that since I'm dedicating all this time to write an explanation in this 'ship as well but I hope it doesn't quite fall in either one of those categories. >.> But if I'm writing this out it's so I can organize my thoughts better, so off we go.
As you know, I started to get into the HP fandom until Half-Blood Prince came out. That was the first hard-cover book of the series I bought, which is how I know the timing. So me, being the BIG HP fan? Not really. When my online friends would squee about whoever I'd listen, but I never let those squees steer me towards liking someone/something, let alone 'ships. I'm picky about that sort of thing, because they have to work for me in order to actually support them, you know? I like to make these decisions on my own.
'Canon references':
In Prisoner of Azkaban we met a Remus Lupin who tries to more or less put some distance between himself and other people. He's friendly with Harry, but he doesn't immediately make it known to him that he knew his parents and had been best friends with them. Twelve years of him being on his own probably did that, along with a certain guilt that he left the poor kid on his own while he mourned. Or tried to ignore/outrun the grief he felt, take your pick. My point is, Remus is the quiet professor that always has a polite smile even to the ones that could very well irritate him. Examples: Snape and Peeves. His tone tends to remain neutral, as well as his reactions. There are glimpses of his humor, but for the most part neutrality is his thing.
Then Sirius gets brought up in a conversation with Harry, and the neutrality slips, which makes Lupin's briefcase slip from his hands in mid conversation. And sure, hearing the name of the person he believes killed his best friends is probably startling, but considering the amount of times the entire Wizarding world had been hearing that name, would it really take him by that much surprise when Harry brings him up? Emotions have to be strong for Remus to show it, and there are loads of unresolved issues between the two men so of course his emotions run deep enough for them to make him react when he's caught off guard.
Now, the hug... Yes, they "embraced like brothers," but as someone once pointed out, the narrator is not exactly reliable, is it? We hear how Harry feels, and how he interprets the looks and such of others, but that's it. And, sorry, but this quote makes me believe like it's going to lead to something else:
"Professor," Harry interrupted loudly, "what's going on--?"
But he never finished the question, because what he saw made his voice die in his throat. Lupin was lowering his wand, gazing fixedly at Black. The Professor walked to Black's side, seized his wand, pulled him to his feet so that Crookshanks fell to the floor, and embraced Black like a brother.
...right. A hug. >.>
And okay, let's go with just the hug. They haven't seen each other in twelve years. The relief is there, and of course they embraced. Or, rather, Remus embraced Sirius when earlier he had trouble just reaching over to give Harry a squeeze of the shoulder to comfort him when he told him about the dementors. Remus is just not the affectionate type of guy, yet he initiates the embrace. In the movie there's even a bigger sign of something else lurking beneath the surface at the way they hug each other even before Remus finds out the whole story.
Even after their reunion at the shack, though, things aren't really resolved because how do you resolve twelve years (thirteen if you count the year when they must have doubted each other) in a few minutes and with the children and Peter in the room? Obviously we don't know how/if they resolved things at all since the books cover Harry's quest, but at one point in GoF Sirius moves in with Remus. Living together must have given them a chance to at least fix some of that gap that separated them in order to live together without suffocating each other. I can't claim what things they did/didn't do 'cause, well, this is all my theory, but I believe they must have rekindled their relationship enough for them to be comfortable around each other. Comfortable enough for Remus to move in with Sirius when he goes to Grimmauld.
So this moves us on to OotP. Remus is living with Sirius in Grimmauld. Yeah, Sirius is depressed and having trouble coping with being cooped up, but Remus himself is leaving on missions for the Order so Sirius is often alone in that house he despises so much. And let's face it, no matter how deep their feelings for each other could be, Sirius isn't the type to stay at home and wait; especially after being locked up for so many years. He's the independent type, and having to stay back and watch while Harry is in danger must have been torture. Remus must have tried his best to make things easier for him, but we also know that one person cannot be everything for someone else no matter how much you may love them. And Remus gets this, of course. He can't 'fix' Sirius or make things better how he wants to because Sirius couldn't 'fix' him or make things better when things were crappy for him in the past either.
In OotP we also see a change in Remus. His personality seems to have strengthened, and when Sirius starts arguing with Molly he's 'forceful' enough to raise his voice and make Sirius settle down. This, in my opinion, is one of my biggest signs that what they mean to each other is so much stronger and deeper than it's let on. We all have friends that complement us, sure, but for them they just...match. They complement each other. Sirius' temper gets the best of him but Remus knows how to calm him down at once. And Remus, no matter how quiet he may be, around Sirius there's a shift in his personality. He seems more comfortable to speak out and talk and take charge because, I believe, Sirius gives him a confidence that he often lacks. Why? Well... If Sirius accepted Remus despite his 'Dark creature' status, became an animagus to keep him company, and is one of the four people that first showed him what unconditional love was, then Remus knows he can be himself without worrying that Sirius is going to judge him. Which, of course, gives Remus that confidence I mentioned. He's such a Pisces and how he'd rather avoid conflict if he can, but when the argument between Molly and Sirius flares, Remus is the one that throws himself in the middle of it and makes Sirius sit back down. Again, we don't get a real glimpse into how their life at Grimmauld is like when they're alone, but - again - this is Harry's story.
When Sirius goes through the veil, Remus shatters. Completely and utterly shatters. The emotion is palpable, when we know just how hard it is for him to really display any signs of what he's feeling. But his voice breaks, and his voice "sounded as though every word was causing him pain." Sirius is gone but this time he knows (or believes) that Sirius cannot come back or escape like he did from Azkaban. I truly believe that, if it hadn't been for Harry, he would have actually gone through the veil himself with him. The only reason he stopped it was because he had to stop Harry from doing the same. Harry, Sirius and Remus had each other as their family and for them to lose him, and to witness it breaks them both in thousands of little pieces that, honestly, they can't put together. We know for sure that Harry has trouble coming to grips with it because of what is said in HBP. And Remus, at the end of OotP, he's already back to being the quiet one. Also, for Remus, while I do agree that part of why he looks and acts the way he does in HBP is because of how confused he is about Tonks' feelings for him,he's just like a fish out of water again. He spent a year and a half or so with Sirius, back to being who he had once been (or at least close enough to it) and to lose him was horrible. He lost his best friend. He lost the only person that truly knows him because of how long they had known each other and were, more or less, each other's lifelines ever since they were teenagers.
Now, if Remus and Sirius really had been together, why did Molly and Arthur (and everyone else that may have done it but I'm not remembering) insist so much on him and Tonks hooking up, right? This is the part where I point out how they would have been a homosexual couple in the 70s-80s. Plus Remus is a very, very private person and that is proven when the argument at the hospital wing happens after Dumbledore dies. Remus looks/feels obviously uncomfortable at the outburst and looks like he wants the floor to swallow him up. So him and Sirius outing themselves... I don't know. I find that hard to believe, actually. I'm sure others would have seen hints of it, but I doubt a lot of people knew for sure unless the boys confided in them.
Personal views on this:
...well this is all my personal view, I guess? But my personal reasons for liking them are simple, and why I have no problems writing Remus as gay/bi:
* They know each other since they were teens. For Remus it's his first love, because Sirius is one of the rare few that managed to break down his walls to get to his heart. And there's just something about that first love, isn't there?
* They get each other and complement each other so well. They just fit together. Both find shelter in their group of friend, but to each other they are also incredibly important as well.
* They are not perfect. At all. Either one of them, and they each made mistakes. Sirius was about to feed Severus to Moony, which is something Remus would have been furious and devastated about. But, let's face it: teenage boys are not exactly the most mature creatures in the world. Sirius would fall into this category at that time, and in a hot-headed moment then he told Severus to go to the shack. But Sirius and Remus continue being friends afterwards, so Remus obviously forgave him. At least enough to not break ties completely. Then there's also the fact that they each doubted each other; Sirius believed Remus was the traitor and Remus believed Sirius had gotten James, Lily and Peter killed. But they were in a time of war, Remus has always been the secretive one and Peter would have surely used this fact to turn people against Remus without a problem. Hell, I honestly believe Remus made it VERY easy for Peter to do that. Fast forward to twelve years later and they're older and weary, but they go back to complementing each other and being together despite it all. In other words, their love would have been strong enough for them to say "Okay, you're flawed, I'm flawed; we fucked up but what we have is not something we can just throw away this easily."
I don't play Remus as bi in most communities and completely gay in au_muses because I'm a big fan of slash. I don't mind reading slash when it's done well, but I had never ever written a slashy character at all. Curious, sure, but never someone who had actually been in a relationship with a man (or a girl with another girl) before. And maybe I'm among the few that does this, but I never set their sexuality according to my personal preference. I wait to get a 'vibe' of what their sexuality is. With Remus, when I first started writing him, I actually wasn't sure what to expect and I refused to let others influence me in writing him a certain way. And it didn't take long for me to get that 'vibe,' actually. He's at least bisexual. David Thewlis himself has said he believed he was the one that with the role of the gay wizard. True, he has said he hasn't really read the books but I'm guessing the director must have and Thewlis has also claimed that even the director agreed that Lupin was gay.
The reason I hate hate hate the "But it's not in the books!" reasoning is that that's not really a reason to rule out the possibility of Remus/Sirius. It's not in the books that Remus did fall in love with Tonks either, so is that not true then? It's not in the books that Dumbledore is gay, either, and it wasn't until JKR confirmed it. So, basically, unless you're JKR and tell me it's not possible for the two to have been in a relationship before Remus/Tonks got together, then the "it's not in the books" reasoning isn't valid. (And if JKR did in fact tell me that, I'd question other pairings that, frankly, make a lot less sense than the possible R/S >.> )
Does this mean I don't believe that Tonks and Remus could have actually fallen in love? No. But it's hard for me to believe that at thirty-seven Remus wouldn't have been in love with someone else. And since he's so picky on who he lets into his heart, can anyone REALLY see him trusting a complete stranger when he despises being shunned when they find out what he is even if he claims he's "used to it" as he says? So I'm not saying Tonks/Remus isn't possible but, frankly, I see more proof for R/S than we get for R/T. To me, and I really really do not mean to offend anyone with this, R/T got sloppily thrown together. In HBP it all started well, and I actually would've believed it if JKR would have devoted at least a page to their relationship, but we get paragraphs instead throughout DH. They go from holding hands and Remus barely coming to terms with his relationship with Tonks, but then they're married in the first few pages of DH and the mind just boggles a little. :X
Even with that, and how I believe that Tonks and Remus' relationship didn't get the explanation it deserved, I am actually a supporter of both. Really, I am. ...okay, my mun journal may reflect something else at the moment but that's me having fun with two pictures that I fell in love with. If I wrote this whole thing out it's because the 'ship has been questioned one too many times and the only reasoning I keep hearing is "but it's not in the books!"
Yes, well. Let me ask you something. Is a character not gay just because JKR didn't say "Professor Lupin, the gay werewolf, taught Harry Potter how to cast a patronus"? What is our proof that a character is straight, anyway? We all saw the reaction when Dumbledore was 'exposed' so are we really that surprised that Jo hasn't outed anyone else yet?
I'll respect any 'ship that may not make much sense to me, and it may make me cringe when it's adult-father-figures/Harry but I'm not going to flip on someone for it. I just expect the same curtesy to be extended, you know? That's why I really don't understand 'ship wars; we all have different perspectives and views and perceptions to things, so it'd be so much easier to just respect those differences and boundaries, and if there's a disagreement then disagree without flaming.
That said, I'd actually love to hear other people's thoughts on this. Neutral ground. Like I said, I don't involve myself in 'ship wars so I'm not going to unfriend anyone/be offended if you don't agree with me. If I missed something too, please let me know 'cause I wrote it at work without the books (except for PoA 'cause I left that there a few weeks ago >.> ). Just please don't use the "it's not in the books" reasoning, that is all I ask. ;)
<3,
Remus!mun