realization

[r_transpose_p]

So after working on a simulation platform for my robots in Java for some time, and having done large projects in C++, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that "Java is not significantly easier than C++"

Some caveats :

1. I am comparing templatized C++ with STL and Boost to Java with Generics. Day to day use of either language changes radically if

Comments

[anonymous]

about 80% of my code is output in straight C. The rest is a quasi-embedded C++ without templates or exceptions

in short, life is pretty good. there's lots of time left over to focus on syntax

[r_transpose_p]

who are you?

[angelbob]

Yup, that's pretty much true. If you don't do anything too awful in C++ with pointers, it's basically like Java day-to-day.

[harryh]

You don't have to delete things in java! Combine this with exceptions and doing things in C++ becomes real scary real fast.

Also, I find anonymous classes to be indispensable.

[r_transpose_p]

Huh, I should look into those then.

[harryh]

That's the thing about comparing A to B when B has more features. If you're really used to A or actually just using A you don't think so much about all of those great new features so you think they're no big deal.

But use B for a while and then try to go back to A and you see how horrible it is.

[r_transpose_p]

Something like that is probably part of the source of my Java frustration.

You did slip in a little bit of hyperbole implying a "strict subset" relationship between the features of one language and the other. I'll assume that we both know that this is not the case and move on.

[skamille]

Yeah, you're just wrong on this one.

[r_transpose_p]

Give me pointers (no pun intended). I may very well be doing something wrong, or missing major uses for language features.

[skamille]

Compiling, deploying, debugging. IDEs. Refactoring. Can you go into your running C++ code, stop it at a breakpoint, make a change to it and have it hot-swap into the running code? (I actually don't know, maybe you can? Seems like the kind of thing you need a VM for though).

[soong]

Apple's C++ IDE has the ability to patch running code. That was a new feature a bit over a year ago I think. Sun had it 10 years ago (if you wanted to pay $n000 per seat).

[anonymous]

How about, "It is not significantly easier to write C++ in Java than it is in C++"? Maybe Java would be better if you were designing for The Java Way?

I've been doing mostly C/C++ lately because I've been doing performance sensitive things that really need the extra speed (and trying to write bloat-free C++ to make sure it really does get that performance). Otherwise I keep thinking that I'd rather write in Java because of how nice it is for a lot of things.

[soong]

Sorry, that was me. Didn't notice that lj logged me out.

[r_transpose_p]

Again, any pointers on what "the java way" might be, and how to go about learning it would be helpful.

I did notice that C++ got a lot easier once I started copying the code philosophy of former Java programmers.

[r_transpose_p]

In exchange, I'll recommend http://tinyurl.com/59z7zp

"The C++ Way" radically changed fairly recently.

I can't claim its easier/harder than Java, but I can claim that its pretty interesting, easier than the old C++, easier than C, easier than FORTRAN, and still significantly harder than Python.