Sigh...I've been wheedled and cajoled into returning to LJ. So I figured I'd start with something basic and work my way up to actual wisdom and hilarity. So...the "belief" thingie, from scrollgirl
Pascal's wager works in a society where the only choice is between one religion and non-belief. It fails completely when you have several hundred religions, many of which threaten eternal torment for anyone who believes in any of the others.
Which is true, and a point I've made myself in many a late-night debate. What it comes down to for me is that even if I choose to believe in a pervasive God, I need not choose to believe in the formulations of others. I need not choose to believe that an omnipotent deity really cares whether we bow down in a specific direction five times a day or whether we engage in premarital sex with someone we love or whether we go to a specific church or whether we eat cows or pigs or holy wafers or et cetera ad nauseum. From my perspective, this gives extremely short shrift to the very idea of an omnipotent, omniscient being. And condemns a vast majority of the human race to torment and suffering, no matter which belief system you choose. It does boil down to my own beliefs about what is likely, true enough, and even if I'm an agnostic, I can still have opinions on what a supreme deity would be like if one exists. What is common enough in the various religions are the twin precepts of A) leading an ethical and moral life in the sense of
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You have a tattoo?scrollgirlFebruary 4 2004, 10:50:57 UTC
What is it? And wow, you certainly answered these questions with a lot more consideration than I did. Turns out I'm intimately familiar with Pascal's wager, though I didn't know that's what it was called. I'll bet every Christian has at least considered going with this wager, even if they ultimately decide against it.
Also: There was a time in our evolution where smell was given an extremely high preponderance of credibility. But we have higher cognitive functions now, and replacing smell with sight does great injustice to our abilities.
Very true, and I occasionally have flashes of anxiety that I might go blind. I don't think I could stand that. We're so sight-dependent now, I'd be horrified if I couldn't use my eyes as easily as I do now.
Btw, your new icon is terrific. Mystery + pretty kitty = blue tigers!
Yep, I have a tattoo...randomwaysFebruary 6 2004, 14:04:34 UTC
It's made my life much better. The skies are clearer, food tastes richer and more savory, drinks are mixed just the right way, women love me, animals beg for my attention and I just received a full pardon lovely gift basket from the President of the United States. Sigh...life is good.
Sight is an extremely powerful factor in how we think, how we interact, how we behave. But...touch, in the end, is what makes us the most human. Seeing a lover, for instance, is wonderful...but that tactile sense of something touching us is irreplacable. It's no coincidence that we talk about emotions and beliefs in terms of "I feel such-and-such."
I'm glad to see you're back. Definitely food for thought here, even if I don't always agree with you. You think things like this through far more than I do; I tend to react on a visceral level and go from there. I hope you'll keep updating.
You don't always agree with me? Disagreeing with me, in many cases, is a sure sign that you're mentally well-adjusted. Trust me, even I don't want to agree with me sometimes.
Visceral is good. But wait till you start writing college papers...your professors will quickly impress upon you the need for dry, boring facts and really pointless annotations.
As an atheist, I must say that I think you're missing an important aspect of of the decision-making process regarding belief in God: spite and petty rebellion. While I agree that in the absence of proof agnosticism is the more logical choice, atheists believe that the constant expression of disbelief without ensuing divine retribution is proof enough. That is why you see atheists, from time to time, shaking their fists at the sky and say, "I denounce you and all your works, now what are you going to do about it?" The lack of retribution is proof enough, although I believe one or two atheists have been know to die afterwards of indeterminate causes, but the lack of direct cosequences lead one to believe that this was a statistical anomaly.
I must admit that I haven't given spite and petty rebellion their just due. Odd, that, considering my emphatic faith in the absurdist doctrines. Or not so odd: I can easily see the universe run by an arbitrary and easily distracted Trickster deity...not some lowly Coyote or Lokl, but more along the lines of an ambivalent but fun-loving demiurge.
But the lack of direct consequences as proof presupposes that any God isn't simply sitting up on hir Throne of Judgment smirking at the knowledge that said atheists will soon be up to their collarbones in molten pitch as diabolic fallen angels torment them with pitchforks. I rather imagine that an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal God can afford to take the long view of things and withhold the blue bolts from above. After all, as so, so many religious people have failed to comprehend, there is a distinct divide between giving us the freedom to choose our destiny -- salvation or damnation -- and punishing us ad hoc for any step down the latter path.
I was in Chicago in July - but never got to actually speak with you then (were you hiding?). Your recap of the events was WONDERFUL, and I was disappointed that I'd missed getting to know you!
Would you mind if I friended you? I JUST found your LJ (thanks Scrollgirl!!) - but I don't have time to catch up on your LJ or comment just now - since I'm off to get my Oil changed. I'm printing this off though, and perhaps I'll have something intelligent to say when I return. Thanks for the reading (above) since PEOPLE magazines just DON't do it for me.. and that's all they seem to have there! - Gotta run, before we're BURIED in the white fluffy stuff!
It was great to chat with you on New Years Eve!!
Let me know, OK? - THANKS!
(ICON = Stream at the fish hatchery in Grayling MI)
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Also: There was a time in our evolution where smell was given an extremely high preponderance of credibility. But we have higher cognitive functions now, and replacing smell with sight does great injustice to our abilities.
Very true, and I occasionally have flashes of anxiety that I might go blind. I don't think I could stand that. We're so sight-dependent now, I'd be horrified if I couldn't use my eyes as easily as I do now.
Btw, your new icon is terrific. Mystery + pretty kitty = blue tigers!
Reply
Sight is an extremely powerful factor in how we think, how we interact, how we behave. But...touch, in the end, is what makes us the most human. Seeing a lover, for instance, is wonderful...but that tactile sense of something touching us is irreplacable. It's no coincidence that we talk about emotions and beliefs in terms of "I feel such-and-such."
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BTW, welcome back. :smile:
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Visceral is good. But wait till you start writing college papers...your professors will quickly impress upon you the need for dry, boring facts and really pointless annotations.
Reply
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But the lack of direct consequences as proof presupposes that any God isn't simply sitting up on hir Throne of Judgment smirking at the knowledge that said atheists will soon be up to their collarbones in molten pitch as diabolic fallen angels torment them with pitchforks. I rather imagine that an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal God can afford to take the long view of things and withhold the blue bolts from above. After all, as so, so many religious people have failed to comprehend, there is a distinct divide between giving us the freedom to choose our destiny -- salvation or damnation -- and punishing us ad hoc for any step down the latter path.
Reply
I was in Chicago in July - but never got to actually speak with you then (were you hiding?). Your recap of the events was WONDERFUL, and I was disappointed that I'd missed getting to know you!
Would you mind if I friended you? I JUST found your LJ (thanks Scrollgirl!!) - but I don't have time to catch up on your LJ or comment just now - since I'm off to get my Oil changed. I'm printing this off though, and perhaps I'll have something intelligent to say when I return. Thanks for the reading (above) since PEOPLE magazines just DON't do it for me.. and that's all they seem to have there! - Gotta run, before we're BURIED in the white fluffy stuff!
It was great to chat with you on New Years Eve!!
Let me know, OK? - THANKS!
(ICON = Stream at the fish hatchery in Grayling MI)
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