Moi? Gullible? XD

[ravenstar84]

But that's not the important part.

I reread the wank thread that went on over at HMS_STFU and tried searching other places, but does anyone know where white women tears was even mentioned concerning STFU? I'm lost.

And note to the anons: white women tears can not be racist nor misogynist. It is a counter attack on white womenhood (or white women

Comments

[summeriris]

It is a mess Ravenstar, no doubt. I read that poem and all your posts. I don't know what to say really. As usual my words desert me and I don't understand. There is one point I would like to say. Racism and bigotry is bad for everyone. It is bad for the oppressed, but it is also bad for the opressor. We are all human and I firmly believe that. Karma is a bitch and we all get bitten, sooner or later. I am a woman who belongs to an ethnic minority, but I also have a white skin. That skin does not give me that much privilige, because no matter how white my skin is I don't posses a penis in my ethnic group and that is a drawback to having brains it seems

[ravenstar84]

"That skin does not give me that much privilige, because no matter how white my skin is I don't posses a penis in my ethnic group and that is a drawback to having brains it seems."

I'd say that has more to do with sexism within your ethnic group. Unless you mean that not everyone within your community is/looks white?

Let me clarify though, everything that I'm explaining (even the links I give) are more centered around U.S./North America race issues. White privilege is a worldwide thing, but I know things get slightly different depending what country or culture you're in since race is handled differently in different places. My only issue for this post was the anons' interpretation of white women tears, which I don't know how it exists out side U.S./Canada.

[lovemime]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this part:

"That skin does not give me that much privilige, because no matter how white my skin is I don't posses a penis in my ethnic group and that is a drawback to having brains it seems."

Mostly because my mother is Japanese and my father is Caucasian, and that I look more white than Asian, but the way some people treat me can vary dramatically on whether or not they believe that I am white or have an Asian parent. Very funny and edgy lines like 'You have big breasts for an Asian' and 'Why do girls in Japanese/Asian porn cry? LOL'... are situations that aren't usually presented when somebody thinks I'm simply a white woman

[summeriris]

I sincerely hope that you understand that when I say that those remarks are the type of thing that angers me. I don't cry, but I do get angry that any human being should have that type of thing said to her. But on the other hand I don't want to be accused/excused because of my anger. I can't really put myself in your place, how can I ever hope to say that I can? I can get angry and I can support groups that work toward stopping this kind of behaviour but I cannot put myself into your skin anymore than you can understand the subtleties of my experience. And let me say no Gypsy man would ever make a sexual remark to me. He would cut out his tongue before doing that. He would do is simply ignore any sign that I have a mind of my own. I am retired from work and collect a pension and I am still referred to as a 'girl'. It gets old, just as I am getting old. Old age will bring it's own form of condescension and patronizing and it is staring me right in the face. I suppose what I am saying is that I don't want to be classed as 'some white

(not an official response about anything)

[chocolatepot]

The phrase is handy for pointing out a phenomenon that needs to be pointed out and I completely understand why the original poem called it that, but yes, it is sexist. It's got two problematic interpretations - that it's only women who make an unnecessary big deal out of being called racist, or that men who react that way are acting like women. Women aren't the only ones who react that way (it's happened in every iteration of RaceFail whenever a guy is called out) and I don't think I need to explain why it's an issue to describe someone as "acting like a woman by crying". I don't know if white women are raised with a special sense of entitlement, but if they are, it's probably also class-related - which is not a WSesque attempt to position myself as harmed by more-isms-than-thou, as I'm middle-middle or upper-middle class. Basically, I don't see why it has to stay "white women's tears" when it is pretty sexist, and "white folks's tears" or "white people' tears" (as I've seen various anons propose) sound pretty similar. And I

Re: (not an official response about anything)

[ravenstar84]

I don't know where or how white women tears was used in regards to the STFU wank, so I'm wondering if anyone knew of anything that went on else where.

The term itself was created by a WOC in response to the sexism and racism by white women. It's also been used to fuel more of a reference to White woman syndrome. (I know of a handful of news reports within the last 2 decades of white American women faking a crime/attack against them and blaming it on a made up POC

Re: (not an official response about anything)

[chocolatepot]

I had a really, really good blog post bookmarked on the issues with the phrase, but of course it has MIRACULOUSLY DISAPPEARED from my Delicious. This always happens to me. I probably just tagged it wrong, tbh.

I have nothing against labeling and calling out the action the term refers to. It needs to be called out and people need to stop aiding and abetting white people who are crying about being called racist instead of actually looking at what they did.

The interpretations you give are not ones I've encountered, but white women tears has nothing to do with labeling white women as more racist or that one is "acting like a woman by crying."

I didn't mean those as interpretations of what the phrase actually refers to - they're interpretations of how the words of the phrase itself break down. If it's accurate and "white women's tears" needs to be "white women's tears" in order to make sense, either only white women do the whole "whhyyyyy have I been called racist, woe is me" bit or men who do it are considered to be acting like

Re: (not an official response about anything)

[ravenstar84]

"I didn't mean those as interpretations of what the phrase actually refers to - they're interpretations of how the words of the phrase itself break down. If it's accurate and "white women's tears" needs to be "white women's tears" in order to make sense, either only white women do the whole "whhyyyyy have I been called racist, woe is me" bit or men who do it are considered to be acting like women."

And why or how would it be broken down that way if its already established why the term was created? If anyone is using it to attack white women just for attacking white women, then I wouldn't agree with that.

"As far as I can tell, white women's entitlement stems from the same sexist impulses that would cause white men to rush to their aid - being treated as though one is fragile and delicate and needs protection can lead to feeling that one deserves it."Yes, it stems from white privilege and white patriarchy, but both are still using it according to their gender. White men are doing the saving, and white women are the "damsel in

[inverarity]

I never thought "White Women's Tears" was about (white) women being weepy, but about the tendency of white (women) to deflect accusations of racism by making it all about how hurt they were at being accused of racism.

Also, apparently I represent 20% of the male population of LiveJournal. Who knew?

I don't follow HMS_STFU, but I don't even know what thread all this is going on in? And apparently it's shut down the community now?

[ravenstar84]

"I never thought "White Women's Tears" was about (white) women being weepy, but about the tendency of white (women) to deflect accusations of racism by making it all about how hurt they were at being accused of racism."

That's the surface of it. The link I give in my post go into the nuances of it.

All the wank is in the last post before all the mod posts (5th one down). The wank triggered it, but honestly, I think the mods thought it was best to retire the comm anyway due to fandom not being as active as it used to be. Wank like this hardly ever happens there often. And it was mostly from anon trolls anyway.

[bitchet]

I feel like I've missed a lot.

[ravenstar84]

If you know what happened on STFU, that was about it. I'm just commenting on what someone from hp_anon said about the wank, which really had nothing to do with the wank. If that makes sense. :-p

[bitchet]

If you know what happened on STFU

I did not! Just getting caught up.

I'm just commenting on what someone from hp_anon said about the wank, which really had nothing to do with the wank. If that makes sense. :-p

As much as anything that happens on hp_anon ever does!

[randomneses]

I didn't even know hp_anon was still going on

[sailorlum]

My GoogleFu and HMS_STFU archive scouring came up with nothing for "white women's tears" with regards to the HMS_STFU. Probably that anon was reacting to the "won't someone think of the white women!" statement and was equating it with "white women's tears".

As for the phrase, "white women's tears"...I'd say it definitely isn't a racist phrase, as white people are in the majority slot and can't be oppressed about being white. With regards to sexism, I think it can get tricky. On the one hand, it is specific that it's about *white* women's tears, not all women's tears, but on the other hand, there is the unfortunate implication that women are de-facto criers and do it only to manipulate. Perhaps "white women's ego trip" would be a better phrase in general (since not every woman will react with tears, even if that is the stereotype). Having said all that, I’m personally not fussed about the phrase “white women’s tears” as it does come off to me as having the emphasis on white and is thus speaking about white woman syndrome.

[ravenstar84]

It was actually me who said the "won't think of the white people statement" somewhere along the thread. I admit, its my knee jerk reaction whenever and someone else just brings it back to being about white people. I thought glassdiatom made a mistake in assuming everyone was white (since STFU is pretty diverse from what I've seen), but plenty of people have made the mistake of thinking someone they're talking to is a woman since majority of fandom is female. So I didn't think there was anything sexist about it, though I can see why it looks that way. Though I'm still not sure how anon got "white women tears" through that.