HBP Theory

[readerravenclaw]

Theory about book six, and questions about a certain plot point....

Comments

[jan_aq]

I was thinking about this earlier too, that if Snape had thought to himself "it's not time for me to do this, Draco may still do so" or whatever that the vow wouldn't kill him.

But then i had the scene in my head of what it would be like if Draco had turned good and Snape kept having to tell himself that Draco still had a chance to complete it, every 10 months or whatever because it would loop... that Snape would HAVE to make an attempt on Dumbledore's life and Harry or someone would have to expect it and foul it so Snape can tell himself that he'll just try again in 10 months...

[readerravenclaw]

I'd really like to know more about the technicalities of Unbreakable Vows. The more you think about it, the more problematic it seems. If the penalty is activated according to some sort of objective standard, how does that work? Words can mean different things, and unless the vow is a straight-forward vow NOT to do something ("I will not kill X") or a straight-forward vow TO do something within a certain time limit, how can there be an objective standard? It would seem that the penalty must be triggered by the vower's belief that they have broken the vow. In that case, would a Memory Charm neutralize the vow? There's just so many questions... I wonder if JKR has considered any of the ramifications of this?

[jan_aq]

Probably not. :P

[ellid]

What *I'm* wondering is why Dumbledore didn't have the Order swear some sort of vow to him. He's already had a traitor in the ranks (Peter Pettigrew). You'd think the old coot would have learned.

[readerravenclaw]

That's part of my question - why isn't this Unbreakable Vow thing used more often? I think the only good explanation is that there's something Dark about it because unforseen circumstances can cause someone to be unable to fulfill their vow and thus die without good cause. But I really want to know much more about how Unbreakable Vows work.

[moohaa]

My thinking is that the vow has to be specific and time limited. + There is an evilish scent to it, the kind that F+G would talk about but never dream of doing. + It means that the members don't trust each other enough (I know they have a perfectly good reason, and yet).

[readerravenclaw]

Snape's vows weren't time limited, not really. I do think there is an evilish scent to it, as you put it, but actually, Fred and George DID try to get Ron to make an Unbreakable Vow - they weren't just talking about it, they were actually starting upon the process.

What do you mean "It means that the members don't trust each other enough"? Members of the Order? What does that have to do with swearing Unbreakable Vows?

[moohaa]

Love. That was the word I was looking for. The Unbreakable vow inspires suspicion. Suspicion diminishes LOVE, and love is the most powerful magic (According to Dumbledore). Hence, the members of Order shouldn’t use it. Dumbledore was very explicit about the L word. And it doesn't have to be time limited, but still limited and LIMITING.

[miranda_macondo]

Very interesting:
"Why doesn't Voldemort have all his Deatheaters swear Unbreakable vows to be loyal to him forever?"

Actually, though, do we know that Voldemorst hasn't had all his Death Eaters swear Unbreakable vows? I think Unbreakable vows are exactly the kind of things power-craving, paranoid/suspicious Voldemort would go for to control his followers. And I don't think Voldie would think this is beneath him; after all submitting to perform an Unbreakable vow is a show of loyalty of sorts.

Of course, this leaves us with another problem: is Snape really loyal to Voldie, then, or is he circumventing it in a clever way (e.g. avoiding the exact wording of the vow, etc.)

Any thoughts?

[readerravenclaw]

But then how to explain Karkaroff?

But Karkaroff was never really disloyal.... Also, how could someone swear to always be "loyal"? What does loyal mean? And if Voldemort did make them swear something of the sort, why wouldn't Bellatrix trust snape?

here from daily snitch

[adjectivegirl]

I'm interested, just throwing this out there, if the Dark Mark has at least a minor form of the Unbreakable (err...semi-breakable) Vow put in it because one of the principle means Voldemort has of controlling them is saying come here now or suffer pain just by not arriving promptly. Granted, he'd still have to hunt them down and kill them, like Karakoff but from what it seems like it takes a great deal of willpower-or desperation to stay away.

Re: here from daily snitch

[readerravenclaw]

Interesting idea.... I doubt it's actually a form of the Unbreakable Vow, but it's quite possibly from the same family of curses. I imagine that there's a whole category of spells/curses related to getting people to doing what you want, most not nearly as all-encompassing as Imperius, but some still quite bad....