[DnD] I think I just fixed Fighters.

[reaverta]

Hm. It sure has been a long time since I posted anything at all about D&D on here, isn't it? Well, I figure I may as well change, at least when discussing experimental concepts. Where better to start than Fighters?

It's long been held by many, many experienced groups that as the levels climb, Fighters tend to fall behind. (Well, okay melee classes

Comments

[necomancer]

Not bad, though the tactical ability makes it pointless to ever try a trip, disarm or any sort of effect on a fighter. Improvisations basicly gives you another bonus feet once you reach a certain level,since you rarely fight more then 3 battles a day

[reaverta]

Well... yes and no. It was equally 'pointless' to trip a barbarian who was Raging, remember - he had a +2 or +3 to the check himself. So in that sense, it's not actually until 9th and 12th level that he's any better than a Raging Barbarian at resisting such stuff. That's not too bad, I figure. And hey, monsters have insane bonuses anyway - it'd be nice if the fighter /did/ stand a chance against them, y'know? ;)

Improvisations by, high levels, may well indeed 'just give you another bonus feat', but there's a few catches here - first, you can't do that till 11th or 15th level, by which the game is getting pretty crazy anyway. And further, it's discounting the real power of it - you can have not only a bonus feat, but the perfect one for the current fight.

Like taking Improved Trip or Stability when fighting a wolf, Improved Grapple when fighting a thing with tentacles, Cleave when fighting a swarm of little guys... its power is that it's the feat you needed right now. And you get it at the levels that Fighters started to suck.

[necomancer]

...Improved grapple when fighting things with tentacles...? Reiver, you're starting to sound like Einar.

[reaverta]

I mostly meant for the +4 to escape, ya doofus.

Any opinions on the class in general, though?

[msmercenary]

For those of us familiar with the source material, but without the patience to try to parse this, can you post a diff between this and what's in 3.5?

[reaverta]

Cough.

Fighters get a bonus feat at 1st level, and every even level thereafter.

(Yes, that's it. That was kind of the problem. :P)

Oh, and the new Fighter has access to Tumble, Spot, and Profession, too. But that's just filling holes they should never have had in the skills to start with.

[reaverta]

Perhaps I should also give a Really Short Summary, sans all the rules clarifications, for the new stuff:

Tactician: Gain a +1 bonus to opposed combat rolls (Grapples, disarms, trips, bullrushes, feints, etc), AC vs Attacks of Opportunity, and Iniative checks, per three levels. (Same rate as a Rogues Trap Sense, if that is easier to parse.)

Disciplined: At 5th level, gain +2 vs Fear and Compulsions. (Largely a filler ability, 'cuz 5th level was always extremely barren.)

Improvisation (The big one): 1/day at 7th level, for [Fighter level] rounds, pull any Fighter feat you met the pre-requisites for out of your ass as a swift action. 2/day at 11th, 3/day at 15th, 4/day at 19th. You can use multiple uses simultaneously, to, say, pull Improved Grapple outta your ass when you'd not taken Improved Unarmed Strike previously. And then proceed to use it to grapple that pesky wizard. ;)

Second Wind: Temporarily heal 3*[Fighter level] HP as a move action. This healing (essentially temporary hitpoints) lasts for ten minutes per fighter level,

[lord_reluctant]

For the most part, I like. The goal is one I can get behind and this is a great beginning. May have to put more effort into getting a game off the ground so we can do some playtesting.

But let's get down to the gritty mechanics shall we?
Skills: I'll start with what I probably have most issue with. If Fighters get Spot as a class skill, then every adventuring class should get it. I can't see why the sword-swinger should be anymore competent at spotting the ravening splatter-beast than the mage who's been along with him since day one.

Tactician:Mechanically sound, don't like the name. The fighter who uses it might not be a tactical type; perhaps something else like prowess or battle mastery might be better (and more evocative).

Disciplined: Again, good mechanics (great idea too), but the name doesn't seem quite right.

Improvisation: My thought here is that this ability might mean certain feats are never taken again. Why bother spending a feat on Improved Bull Rush if you can just pop Improv when you need to make a Bull Rush

[reaverta]

Oh, [i]very[/i] nice comments. For the immediate moment, I'm leaving the names roughly alone, simply because they were short and catchy.
Tactician seems okay - it implies that you're using it for creative tactics, while battle mastery, these days, tends to imply 'better at outright hitting stuff'. Still, open for other ideas that evoke unusual tactics and manouvers.

Disciplined ... yeah, I was trying to go for something like Battle Veteran, or some such, but it sounded so... 13-year-old is. If we find a suitable synonym for "Seen it all and honed his mind against it", yes plz!

Improvisation: The reason you'd take Improved Bull Rush is largely the same reason you'd take it now - you find it's really useful in your campaign, or as a pre-req to other cool stuff. Remember, the improvisations are rare/day, and very short lasting - if you expect it to come up more than one encounter in the entire campaign, you might wanna take it...
Simultaneously (and this is a neat thing that someone pointed out), it might actually increase the odds of

[reaverta]

Oh, and I forgot Spot: Spot is there for the same reason that Barbarians get Listen, mechanically. Flavor-wise... Master Archers picking out targets, Guardsmen watching from a tower, elite Watchmen eyeing newcomers, checking for disguises, and Knights trying to spot freakin' [i]Heraldry[/i]. A Fighter is someone who has been out on the battlefield a lot; keen eyes can save lives. Hearing tends to be less crucial, though - orders are shouted, trumpeted, or drummed, and in the din of the battlefeild you're pressed to hear anything but the screams of the dying.
Hence, Fighters with Spot checks! If it bugs you, go ask why Barbarians have such hearing, or why Druids are walking radars. (Rangers and Rogues I can get; they're scouts and lookouts by nature. But unless you want to clamp spot/listen down to exclusively those two, I don't see the harm in it being marginally more spread out.)

Does that do ya? Or does it bug ya 'cuz They've Never Had It Before?

[reaverta]

I just had a thought on how to explain the skills section better, having run into someone that helped discuss thoughts in the other direction. Indeed, they were annoyed I hadn't fixed the skills problem enough, and I think they had a point, which discussing it has let me articulate my own arguement better.

"I can't see why the sword-swinger should be anymore competent at spotting the ravening splatter-beast than the mage who's been along with him since day one."

This here is the inherent problem - Fighters are seen as 'the sword swinger'. Now, Barbarians and Paladins... they're sword-swingers too, and equally capable at it (in their own particular ways). But that's the thing - the Paladin is a leader and healer, the Barbarian is a nature survivor and polish minesweeper.

The most inherent problem with Fighters is the perception not only should they be no more 'overpowering' than any of the other frontline melee classes, but that that's all they should be allowed to do. So they're just as powerful in combat as everyone else... but