BtVS S9 #7 - The relationship part

[rebcake]

If you're not interested in parsing the comics, I don't blame you a bit, and this is probably not going to be your thing.

People who do read the comics seem fairly happy with one point in this issue: Spike came clean about his feelings for Buffy. To her face, even! Possibly.

Comments

[gryfndor_godess]

That's such a nice story about your daughter! It's so great you can share BtVS like that.

I really like your points about Buffy and the comparison to Angel in S2. I'm not sure I'm quite as annoyed at Buffy as you are, because I can understand why she would want to know the truth (especially since he didn't contact after after dying- her shock kind of makes sense in that light), but I was definitely irked by some of her behavior. What got me the most was her attitude on the ship about his inability to be normal. :/

I feel so uncomfortable during "Crush," too! For half of it I feel sorry for Spike (and I can't stand the secondhand humiliation), and the other half I'm cringing because his behavior toward her is so inappropriate that I feel like I shouldn't feel sorry for him at all.

[coalitiongirl]

What got me the most was her attitude on the ship about his inability to be normal. :/

Same here! But on reread, I read that as Buffy beginning to point out that her life isn't normal, and Spike misunderstanding and overreacting before she could finish- hence her frustration in the next scene.

[gryfndor_godess]

Yeah...I've seen other people make that argument, and I definitely think she didn't mean to hurt him (but I also don't think Spike was being too sensitive at all), but her phrasing still bugs me. Because even if she's trying to say that she doesn't want normal, implying that he can't be normal is still rude, because maybe Spike does want that.

[coalitiongirl]

Fair enough, though I kind of subscribe to Buffy's reasoning there? Because as far as she's concerned, 'normal' seems to mean mundane, and Spike's never going to be that as long as he's drinking blood and harboring an extreme sun allergy. I was actually kind of surprised that Spike uses that same 'normal' later on, because it seems so the antithesis of who is? (And I don't want to see a Spike who becomes Buffy's idea of normal for her!) But maybe I'm just not understanding how they use normal in this context. Or maybe Spike isn't! ;D

[rebcake]

I suspect that you may be right that Buffy thinks of "normal" as "non-supernatural", while Spike thinks of "normal" as "healthy interpersonal relationships". She's going to have to let go of the "normal" Angel told her she deserved back in S3 if she ever wants to be happy or satisfied or even just okay with her life. I thought she got there long ago, but I keep being proved wrong in these #$%* comics.

[coalitiongirl]

Aah, I think I'm losing track of threads! Sorry for hijacking your post like this!

Agreed that it's time that she let go of "normal," though as i mentioned below, I suspect that in times when she's unsure of how well she's doing at those more "normal" moments, she regresses back to the old definition.

[gryfndor_godess]

I've always been a fan of the idea that Spike could be as normal as he wanted if he had the motivation- obviously there would be some inherent limitations, like with the sun, but I don't think that would stop him from leading a relatively human lifestyle if that's what he chose- house with a white picket fence, a night job, kids if they get their hands on magical mojo, etc. He's pretty good at breaking and redefining limitations. ;)

So perhaps Buffy really means mundane, but to me it still seems to be fitting him into a box. I also think she's got a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance going on regarding Spike and normality because she's both telling him he's not normal (which I'm going to assume roughly means 'human') and having him call the doctor to schedule her abortion. I feel like it can't get much more normal than that!

(And I don't want to see a Spike who becomes Buffy's idea of normal for her!)(See, now I'm comfortable with it, because I don't think Buffy would ever demand it of him and so his vampire/human hybrid "

[coalitiongirl]

There's a part of me that's wary of Spike ever trying to fit into that white picket fence kind of life just for Buffy- but that's mostly my fear of characters becoming characters-in-law for their significant others, and Spike molding himself into Buffy's ideas of how life should be. On the other hand, I think you can make a strong case for this being something Spike wants, too, and I'd be okay with him doing it for any reason but catering to Buffy's concepts of how life should be. So I think we do kind of agree in that sense. :)

I wonder if Buffy's old insecurities about "normal" crop up when she's in a bad place, as in S6 or now- while in S7 she's able to push that aside and turn down whatever bit of normal she might have had with Robin. So I can see this as a regression because she's back to facing life-as-Big-Bad rather than more tangible Big Bads, and she's grasping at old, safe ideas about that concept.

I also think she's got a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance going on regarding Spike and normality because she's both

[gryfndor_godess]

And I actually love SO MUCH that he called the doctor for her because it's indicative that 1) Spike can be normal for her!

ME, TOO. That was one of my favorite parts.

because it's indicative that 1) Spike can be normal for her!

EXACTLY.

See, you do want them to be "normal" together. ;D

I wonder if Buffy's old insecurities about "normal" crop up when she's in a bad place, as in S6 or now-

Yeah, that makes sense. Like, she starts to think that she's the problem, and if she could only manage to be "normal," things would be okay.

(though I'd disagree with her because I see it as completely okay to lean on someone for something like that!)

Agreed!

[coalitiongirl]

Just 'cause he can be when she's in dire need of it doesn't mean I want to see it full-time! :D But I think there'd be a certain amount of give-and-take in that relationship if they were playing at normal no matter what. I can't imagine Spike ever getting to the point where he'd completely toss aside his nature for her- not anymore (if ever), and I can't imagine Buffy being happy with him if he tried.

[boot_the_grime]

I don't think either of them really wants "normal". I certainly don't think Buffy does anymore, if she ever did. She sure wasn't drawn to Spike because he was "normal dude" in training. She thinks she fails at all things ordinary, but I don't think she even wants those things. I think she was coming to that realization and trying to tell Spike that she isn't trying to have a normal life or looking for normalcy in him

[rebcake]

she's both telling him he's not normal (which I'm going to assume roughly means 'human') and having him call the doctor to schedule her abortion

Hee! So true.

I was sort of disturbed by the cover art of "normalcy looks like this" as applied to our heroes. I'm a bit of a snob, admittedly, but I don't feature Spike in a polo shirt ever, even one that brings out his eyes. ;-)

[gryfndor_godess]

I think the cover was supposed to be a little creepy, a little Stepford-esque. Which doesn't bode well for Joss thinking they could be "normally"-ever-after together. :/ Maybe "abnormally"-ever-after...

[boot_the_grime]

I think it's playing with and mocking the idea of what "normal life" and "normal couple" is supposed to be like. I think the idea of "normalcy" is going to be explored and deconstructed. They'll have to find their own version of life and future that isn't quite "normal".

[rebcake]

Oh, it's definitely showing how absurd "normal" looks with Spike and Buffy's heads Photoshopped in. (Buffy's head isn't quite the right size, so I think the metaphor is purposeful.) I'd quite like to see another version that suits them. Which I have in fanfic. Lots of times and in lots of different ways.

[rahirah]

No, that's just a common error that artists make when copying a head from one picture onto a body from another. :/ (Says someone who's made it herself.)