You know how you said you couldn't figure out how to make this work? I don't see it; this is working just fine for me. I think you cover some excellent points here, and I like the way you put them, too. I am right there with you on pretty much all counts.
Peronsally, I don't so much see volcanic passion between Jayne and Simon either, although I am possibly willing to believe that there might be some physical attraction (especially immediately post-"Ariel"), particularly if generous quantities of booze were involved. I see that pairing, even if it occured, as being pretty appalling to both parties in the cold, sober light of the morning after. Of course, excellent writers have managed to convince me otherwise now and again.
And when that doesn't work, he's willing to die with her-partly because he isn't willing to live without her. However, in the Jossverse, "heroism" and "suicidal ideation" are inextricably intertwinedTo this I would add that in the Jossverse, "nothing we do matters, so nothing matters but what we do". By
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1. Thanks. 2. Excellent points about what it means to be a Big Damn Hero, so thanks there too. And if Amazon had been willing to sell me that gorram copy of "The Existential Joss Whedon" then I could have discussed its arguments too.
Aww crumbs, one thing I was planning to say and forgot: is that I think that *because* Simon doesn't like Jayne, I think it's touching (as well as Ironic, of course) that Simon can make himself congratulate Jayne for what he thinks was Jayne's role in L'Affaire Ariel.
I'd love to say something of Great Insight, but I think I'll stick to "well said" and THANK YOU for writing about Simon. He doesn't get enough fanon attention.
it's always easier for a movie or TV episode to show someone who is dumb or untalented than the opposite, so I always enjoy a believable depiction of someone who's supposed to be intelligent.
Great point. It took me a while to connect to Simon emotionally (as opposed to, say, Kaylee and Mal) because he's so reserved and internal. But those qualities make him very human, and I think you described all of the perfectly.
Thanks, goldy_dollar. Computer problems are keeping me from reading all the Mal/Inara recs in your thread, but everyone whose computer is working better, go there now! And contribute to the thread!
Fandom often assigns a high moral value to height, so short men tend to become the target of ridicule or even hostility.
Computer problems are keeping me from reading all the Mal/Inara recs in your thread, but everyone whose computer is working better, go there now! And contribute to the thread!
Heh. YES. Thank you! I think my goal over the next few days is going to be NAGGING EVERYONE I KNOW. Hey, it's better than studying for finals, right?
I like it. Simon is a very under-rated character, and it's so easy to mess up his fanon characterisation.
In "Ariel," he goes out of his way to antagonize the Alliance guy who's just arrested him. Consciously, he's trying to divert attention from River; subconsciously, I think he just can't resist hassling anybody who's got an advantage over him.
There's so much you could have said there about the sarcastic bastard that is Simon talking to Early in Objects in Space...
TSD: You're quite right--but OiS is an episode that I find it uncomfortable to think about because *nobody* except River is having any damn fun at all.
A well-thought-out and very interesting read. Only one thing to note, in the paragraph about the possibility of Jayne/Simon, there is another aspect to their interactions you didn't touch upon that could also account for their antogonism. To me, it seems pretty clear in the series that Jayne has a boy-crush on Kaylee (he teases her like a school boy pulls the pig-tails of the girl he likes). But Kaylee is very obviously crushing on Simon, and so Jayne acts out against Simon out of jealousy since Kaylee likes him and not Jayne.
thank you, li_izumi. I read Serenity the Pilot a little differently in terms of possible Jayne/Kaylee. Yes, he is worried when she's shot, but I think the reason Mal orders him away from the dinner table (well, apart from throwing his weight around in front of the passengers) is that Kaylee is genuinely hurt, not just enjoying schoolkid teasing. And one thing you don't get away with on Serenity is Contempt of Kaylee!
Anyway, Jayne has had plenty of time to state his case to Kaylee long before Simon arrived--either he made his play and failed, or just wasn't interested.
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Peronsally, I don't so much see volcanic passion between Jayne and Simon either, although I am possibly willing to believe that there might be some physical attraction (especially immediately post-"Ariel"), particularly if generous quantities of booze were involved. I see that pairing, even if it occured, as being pretty appalling to both parties in the cold, sober light of the morning after. Of course, excellent writers have managed to convince me otherwise now and again.
And when that doesn't work, he's willing to die with her-partly because he isn't willing to live without her. However, in the Jossverse, "heroism" and "suicidal ideation" are inextricably intertwinedTo this I would add that in the Jossverse, "nothing we do matters, so nothing matters but what we do". By ( ... )
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2. Excellent points about what it means to be a Big Damn Hero, so thanks there too. And if Amazon had been willing to sell me that gorram copy of "The Existential Joss Whedon" then I could have discussed its arguments too.
Aww crumbs, one thing I was planning to say and forgot: is that I think that *because* Simon doesn't like Jayne, I think it's touching (as well as Ironic, of course) that Simon can make himself congratulate Jayne for what he thinks was Jayne's role in L'Affaire Ariel.
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Niiiiice essay. (*hearts Simon*)
I'd love to say something of Great Insight, but I think I'll stick to "well said" and THANK YOU for writing about Simon. He doesn't get enough fanon attention.
it's always easier for a movie or TV episode to show someone who is dumb or untalented than the opposite, so I always enjoy a believable depiction of someone who's supposed to be intelligent.
Great point. It took me a while to connect to Simon emotionally (as opposed to, say, Kaylee and Mal) because he's so reserved and internal. But those qualities make him very human, and I think you described all of the perfectly.
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Fandom often assigns a high moral value to height, so short men tend to become the target of ridicule or even hostility.
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Heh. YES. Thank you! I think my goal over the next few days is going to be NAGGING EVERYONE I KNOW. Hey, it's better than studying for finals, right?
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In "Ariel," he goes out of his way to antagonize the Alliance guy who's just arrested him. Consciously, he's trying to divert attention from River; subconsciously, I think he just can't resist hassling anybody who's got an advantage over him.
There's so much you could have said there about the sarcastic bastard that is Simon talking to Early in Objects in Space...
Peace out
~TSD
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Anyway, Jayne has had plenty of time to state his case to Kaylee long before Simon arrived--either he made his play and failed, or just wasn't interested.
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