*spoiler Warning* (book 6 Discussion # 1)
*DO NOT THE CUT IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE!*
Okay everybody, here it is. I'm starting a Harry Potter book 6 discussion.
EDIT: This is now the "Death" thread.
tommyedison (on OO.net) wrote:
***SPOILER WARNING***
There's a theory circulating around the net that Snape killing Dumbledore was some sort of master plan on part of Snape and Dumbledore so that Snape could still have the confidence of Voldy. That certainly does have plausibility because with that you can explain Snape's look of disgust (hatred I can understand but disgust?), D's half hearted plea and D's confidence in Snape even after Harry told D about Snape's unbreakable vow.
I've read another theory with says that the last hocrifux (or whatever it's called) is Harry's scar though I doubt there is factual evidence to support it.
I wrote:
Yeah, I started looking for evidence that DD knew what was going to happen as soon as I finished the book. There are a lot of supicious signs. I will elaborate later, as I have to go to Driver's Ed right now.
The only evidence I can think of is the powers that were transferred to Harry when Voldy tried to kill him. Dumbledore never explained that properly. How exactly did Harry get those powers? How are horcruxes made, exactly? We know you have to kill someone, and Voldemort had just killed the Potters. But Dumbledore also thought that he intended to make his last Horcrux on Harry's murder, so I doubt he would turn Harry into a Horcrux just to kill him and make a new one. But on to the Dumbledore/ Snape theory.
Here is the beginning of what will eventually be a very extensive list.
Suspicious signs in order of appearance:
QUOTE(HBP pg 22):
"Bellatrix," he (Snape) replied, his thin mouth curving into a slightly mocking smile as he closed the door with a snap behind him.
Why is he mocking Bellatrix? I may be wrong, but I don't think he has ever acted that way in front of any members of the Order of the Phoenix before. Well, except Sirius, but he is *ahem* a special case. Snape doesn't strike me as the type of person ever to be anyone's man "through and through" like Harry is to Dumbledore. He seems to find Bellatrix's loyalty to Voldy amusing. Very strange...
QUOTE(HBP pg 34):
(Snape:) "He intends me to do it in the end, I think. But he is determined that Draco should try first. You see, in the unlikely event that Draco succeeds, I shall be able to stay a Hogwarts a little longer, fullfilling my useful role as spy."
This is quite odd. With Dumbledore dead, who would there be to spy on? There might not even be a Hogwarts. Voldemort would have known what would happen if the headmaster died. Of all people, he knew how important Dumbledore was to the school. Another interesting unanswerable question: why did Voldemort not want to do the job personally? He usually does that with the important wizards. And why didn't he attempt to take the school following the chaos of Dumbledore's death? Where is he in all of this? Seeing as how he is back, I really did not expect another book that he was not in. That is one of the most ominous things to me.
QUOTE(HBP pg 36):
"And, should it prove necessary... if it seems Draco will fail..." whispered Narcissa (Snape's hand twitched within hers, but he did not draw away), "will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco to perform?" There was a moment's silence. Bellatrix watched, her wand upoon their clasped hands, her eyes wide. "I will," said Snape.
This is very weird. If Snape is really a traitor, why would his hand twitch. He doesn't strike me as a remorseful traitor, or a fearful one either. And what's with the silence? He had no problem agreeing to the other vows. If he is truly on Voldy's side, why would he have any hesitation at all? He would have done things like this before. He would have betrayed Dumbledore before this. He would already be treacherous and would have no reason to hesitate now.
Chapter 3 has a few oddities. Why did Dumbledore come to get Harry personally this time? I know, I know, the Slughorn thing, but I think there is more to it than that. Also, the bigger question is, why didn't he come to get Harry in his first year? It seems to be the practice that a teacher from Hogwarts comes to explain the magical world to muggle-borns. We should ask Hermione.It seems odd to me that Dumbledore would not want to pick up his extremely important charge himself. But as he said, he trusts Hagrid with his life. Still...
Also in chapter 3, why does Dumbledore find it necessary to insure Harry's protection for next year? In the past, that has always happened at the beginning of the summer. Why the difference this year? Surely Dumbledore could have *spoken* to the Dursleys at the end of term if they showed signs of wanting to chuck Harry out. That is, he could have if he hadn't died, but he didn't know he was going to die, did he? Also, the Dursleys hadn't shown any particular desire to kick Harry out this year. Why mention it now?
QUOTE(HBP pg 57):
"If there is an attack," said Dumbledore, "I give you permission to use any counterjinx or curse that might occur to you. However, I do not think you need to worry about being attacked tonight." "Why not, sir?" "You are with me," said Dumbledore simply.
This is quite ominous. Dumbledore isn't the type to take any danger lightly, and he wasn't able to protect Harry at the Department of Mysteries. Harry had to get out of it himself. Why should this be any different? And of all people, Dumbledore would not risk Harry's life. No, this sounds to me as if he already knows of Voldy's plans for his death, and that there is no threat to his life. Yet. It seems to me as though he knew, somehow, that Voldemort would not confront him, and so as long as Harry was with him, he would be safe for the most part.
BTW~ I'm going to try and keep this entry to the Dumbledore/ Snape theory. I've started a new thread on RAB and I'll start one on the Horcruxes.
QUOTE(HBP pg 67):
"I (Dumbledore) am undoubtedly slower than I was. But on the other hand..." He shrugged and spread his hands wide, as though to say that age had it's compensations, and Harry noticed a ring on his uninjured hand that he had never seen Dumbledore wear before: It was large, rather clumsily made of what looked like gold, and was set with a heavy black stone that had cracked down the middle. Slughorn's eyes lingered for a moment on the ring too, and Harry saw a tiny frown momentarily crease his wide forehead.
Odd... Why did Dumbledore wear the ring to meet Slughorn? I'm guessing from Slughorn's frown that he recognized it. Is Dumbledore *completely* sure he got all that curse out of it? Weird.
QUOTE(HBP pg 72):
"Well, yes, it is true that He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named has never sought a fight with Dumbledore," he muttered grudgingly.
Never? Interesting... I mean, Harry has thwarted him plenty of times, and yet he takes pretty much every opportunity to try and kill him, even though he knows Dumbledore can't kill him but Harry can. I mean, he is a bully and so probably a coward, but still, he's arrogant, and I'm still not quite sure why he didn't want to finish Dumbledore himself. In any case, this is an ominous bit of foreshadowing.
QUOTE(HBP @ Albus Dumbledore, pg 79):
Yes, I think it is time that I took a greater hand in your education.
This doesn't really tell all that much, but it does bring up a point I was wondering about the other day. Why do they call him Professor Dumbledore when he doesn't necessarily teach anything. I mean, Harry is really the only one who actually learns anything from him, isn't he? And even then it is usually one of Dumbledore's controlled *accidents* like the Mirror of Erised. But the storm is brewing from here, I think. The time to hide things from Harry has ended, or has it? Has Dumbledore really gotten past his love for Harry and is now ready to let him face his destiny? I don't think so, somehow.
QUOTE(HBP pg 109):
"I know, jus' like old times, innit? See, the Ministry wanted ter send a bunch o' Aurors, but Dumbledore said I'd do," said Hagrid proudly...
Interesting, that is the second time Dumbledore has sent Harry to Diagon Alley with Hagrid. He trusts him more than Aurors. It seems that Harry's protectors are not completely gone.
QUOTE(HBP @ Narcissa Malfoy, pg 113):
I see that being Dumbledore's favorite has given you a false sense of security, Harry Potter. But Dumbledore won't always be around to protect you.
Whoa. Okay, this woman just removed all doubt about what Draco's mission is. Did anybody catch this the first time around? Anybody who didn't already suspect that Dumbledore's death was imminent?
QUOTE(HBP pg 156):
He tried to make a sound, even a grunt, but it was impossible. Then he remembered that some wizards, like Dumbledore, could perform spells without speaking, so he tried to summon his wand, which had fallen out of his hand, by saying the words "Accio Wand!"...
Okay, well we know about nonverbal spells, but what about wandless spells? In his final scene, Dumbledore did not have a wand. Is wandless magic possible? I'll have to check my facts, but I remember there being some evidence for it. If it is possible, was Dumbledore too incapacitated by the potion to perform it, or was he unwilling to do so? After all, I think he could have stunned Draco first and then immobilized Harry, if he had really wanted to get away, but more on that when we come to it. Keep your eyes open for wandless magic though.
QUOTE(HBP pg 166):
"Professor Snape, meanwhile," said Dumbledore, raising his voice so that it carried over all the muttering, "will be taking over the position of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher." "No!" said Harry, so loudly that many heads turned in his direction. He did not care; he was staring up at the staff table, incensed. How could Snape be given the Defense Against the Dark Arts job after all this time? Hadn't it been widely known for years that Dumbledore did not trust him to do it?... "Well, there's one good thing," he said savagely. "Snape'll be gone by the end of the year." "What do you mean?" asked Ron. "That job's jinxed. No one's lasted more than a year....Quirrell actually died doing it....Personally, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for another death...."
Okay, okay, hold on. We know from later in the book that Dumbledore also thinks that job is cursed and that he thinks that Voldemort did it. So did Dumbledore not want Snape doing the Dark Arts job because Snape was too valuable to lose after one year, or because, like Harry says, he didn't trust him to do it? And if Dumbledore knows the job is cursed, then why let Snape take it at all, unless he knows that Snape will be gone anyway?
QUOTE(HBP pg 169):
"Dumbledore uses the name," said Harry stubbornly. "Yeah, well, tha's Dumbledore, innit?" said hagrid mysteriously.
Okay, everyone probably thinks I'm reading way too much into this by now, but hey, what the heck. Anyways, I think Dumbledore's name cropped up a lot more than normal in this book. Also if you take this book at face value, we haven't seen a whole lot of evidence on why everyone is so in awe of Dumbledore. I mean, okay, he is obviously very powerful, but so is Harry. Dumbledore's *thing* comes from his wisdom and seeming omniscience. So why was was everything such a disaster in book 6? The Department of Mysteries fiasco was understandable, but this? Some complex master-plan of having Snape kill him to free Harry seems much more Dumbledore-ish to me.
QUOTE(HBP @ Albus Dumbledore, pg 197)
Naturally I do, but as I have already proven to you, I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being--forgive me--rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger.
So... Is this a clue that Dumbledore has made a grave mistake, or a red herring to throw us off guard and believe, like Harry, that Dumbledore messed up?
QUOTE(HBP pg 199):
"Sir--how did you injure your hand?" Harry asked again, looking at the blackened fingers with a mixture of revulsion and pity. "Now is not the moment for that story Harry. Not yet. We have an appointement with Bob Ogden."
This really annoys me. Why does Dumbledore continue to refuse to tell Harry what happened? Even by the end, we don't know what really happened, just that it was a horcrux. Did he just not want to tell about the horcruxes yet? What happened to the "thrilling tale?" I was expecting to hear more than "it was cursed."
Myself (on OO.net) wrote:
QUOTE(non-contradictor @ Jul 19 2005, 02:57 PM):
What happened to the "thrilling tale?" I was expecting to hear more than "it was cursed."
That bothered me too. Did you get the feeling that the book was rushed? It was shorter for one thing, than Order of the Phoenix and Goblet of Fire, and the description of the school year went something like: all of a sudden its Christmas, they had a harried week, their classes were hard etc. No real description. I can't help wondering - all of the inconsistencies you're picking up in the book - do you think Rowling might have gotten careless? I would have rather have waited than gotten an inferior book as a result...
I wrote:
I don't know really. It's so hard to tell until the series is finished, whether something is a mistake or a clue. This book seems like it is really straightforward. That makes me suspicious. Maybe it's just because the series is now nearing its end, or maybe it is hiding something. The thing that struck me as really weird in this book is that Harry was never in real danger. Where was Voldemort in all of this? I think it's not that descriptive because... nothing was really going on, which makes it all the weirder... I guess we'll just have to see. But I'm still very curious. Where was Voldemort in all of this?
QUOTE(HBP pg 207):
"That's right!" roared Gaunt. For a moment, Harry thought he was making an obscence hand gesture, but then realized that he was showing Ogden the ugly, black stoned ring he was wearing on his middle finger, waving it before Ogden's eyes. "See this? See this? Know what it is? Know where it came from? Centuries it's ben in our family, that's how far back we go, and pure-blood all the way! Know how much I've been offered for this, with the Peverell coat of arms engraved on the stone?"
Okay, so we're sure that this ring is the one Voldy used as a horcrux and that it is the one that Dumbledore now has. Keep an eye on it, I doubt that we've heard all of the story behind it.
QUOTE(HBP pg 215):
Dumbledore considered Harry for a moment, then said, "Yes, I think Mr. Weasley and Miss Granger have proved themselves trustworthy. But Harry, I am going to ask you to ask them not to repeat any of this to anybody else. It would not be a good idea if word got around how much I know, or suspect, about Lord Voldemort's secrets."
Hmmm... If nothing else, this is another example of Dumbledore's trust. It is surely not misplaced in the case of Ron and Hermione, however, how much contact has Dumbledore actually had with them? Also, why doesn't he want anyone else to know? Surely the Order could help destroy the Horcruxes. Does he suspect someone else to be a traitor? Or is he just being careful? But since when is Dumbledore careful about who he trusts? The bigger question, I suppose, is: does Snape know about the Horcruxes? Since Dumbledore was so sure he was trustworthy, would he have told him? I mean, he would have had to have said something when Snape helped him defeat whatever curse was on the ring. What did he tell him? More questions than answers, as usual. *sigh*
QUOTE(HBP pg 215):
He turned away again, and was almost at the door when he saw it. Sitting on one of the little spindle-legged tables that supported so many frail-looking instruments, was an ugly gold ring set with a large, cracked, black stone.
There's that ring again. And Dumbledore still won't tell us how he injured his hand. Strange...
QUOTE(HBP pg 233):
"He's got no chance of persuading Snape," said Harry, the moment Slughorn was out of earshot. "This detention's already been postponed once; Snape did it for Dumbledore, but he won't do it for anyone else."
This probably doesn't mean anything, but I have to point out any sentence that mentions both Snape and Dumbledore.
QUOTE(HBP pg 237):
Where was Dumbledore, and what was he doing? Harry caught sight of the headmaster only twice over the next few weeks. He rarely appeared at meals anymore, and Harry was sure Hermione was right in thinking that he was leaving the school for days at a time. Had Dumbledore forgotten the lessons he was supposed to be giving Harry? Dumbledore had said that the lessons were leading to something to do with the prophecy; Harry had felt bolstered, comforted, and now he felt slightly abandoned.
Poor Harry. For him, becoming dependent on someone is like a death sentence on them. This moment is slightly reminiscent of OotP as well. I couldn't help being annoyed with Dumbledore in that book, because he didn't seem to realize that he was all Harry had at Hogwarts anymore. Now there's no one. *sniff* I can't help but still think it was necessary though. If Dumbledore was still alive, Harry would stay at Hogwarts until Voldemort found a way to capture him again, or he would go after him, but Dumbledore would go as well. There is only room for one anti-Voldemort and Harry finally has to take up the job for himself. I don't think he could have done so if Dumbledore was still alive.
QUOTE(HBP pg 239):
On the other hand, the Prince had proved a much more effective teacher than Snape so far.
Okay, okay, hold on. They're the same person! Why is Snape a better teacher in a textbook? Also, how did he figure out all those tricks to potions? Would he have taught them to the students? Is this another case of Harry's emotions getting the better of him, or are those potions and spells actually easier than the ones Snape gives them in class?
QUOTE(HBP pg 241):
"Maybe your dad did use it, Harry," said Hermione, "but he's not the only one. We've seen a whole bunch of people use it, in case you've forgotten. Dangling people in the air. Making them float along, asleep, helpless."
Did Snape teach the Death Eaters his spell? Somehow, I don't see him teaching them anything. He's much too scathing for that. I don't see him enjoying muggle torment either. See, I still can't imagine him evil. Like Bellatrix-evil. I don't see him doing anything unless there was something to be gained from it. I can't imagine him killing for fun like the other Death Eaters do. What is it with him? I'm not sure if he's Dumbledore's man, but I'm pretty sure he's not Voldemort's. Maybe he's just Snape. In any case, I'm going off topic. How did James learn the spell? Surely Snape didn't teach him.
QUOTE(HBP @ Harry Potter, pg 241):
If he'd been a budding Death Eater he wouldn't have been boasting about being 'half-blood,' would he?
*bitter chuckle* I guess he would. But... Why? Snape called Lily a mudblood, why would he call himself half-blood? Did he not care about the blood thing? Then why would he become a Death Eater? Forget Snape's reasons for changing sides, I'm starting to wonder why he ever joined Voldy in the first place.
QUOTE(HBP pg 242):
"Thanks, Ginny... It's Dumbledore's next lesson!" Harry told Ron and Hermione, pulling open the parchment and quickly reading it's contents. "Monday evening!" He felt suddenly light and happy.
Why do all the people who make Harry happy keep dying? Poor Harry... Like I said, making Harry happy is a death sentence.
QUOTE(HBP @ Minerva McGonagall, pg 252):
Take this necklace to Professor Snape at once, but be sure not to touch it, keep it wrapped in the scarf!
Interesting. It seems that the teachers have been given orders to have Snape deal with any dark stuff. That's quite strange as we have been told that Dumbledore thought teaching DADA would bring about a "relapse." But this year, Dumbledore not only lets him teach defense, he hands him all the dark objects that enter the school! Is anyone else disturbed by this sudden change? It is Snape that helps Dumbledore fight the ring's curse. McGonagall takes the necklace to Snape. Dumbledore asks for Snape in his weakened potion-induced state. What is going on here? Is Dumbledore testing him? Was that confrontation at the end supposed to prove to Harry which side Snape was on, with disatrous results? Very fishy, and highly depressing either way.
That's enough to be going on with, I think. Anyway, my theories were all but shot down by JKR's recent interview with Emerson and Melissa from Mugglenet and the Leaky Cauldron, respectively.
Note: re-posted from my old OO.net blog
Okay everybody, here it is. I'm starting a Harry Potter book 6 discussion.
EDIT: This is now the "Death" thread.
tommyedison (on OO.net) wrote:
***SPOILER WARNING***
There's a theory circulating around the net that Snape killing Dumbledore was some sort of master plan on part of Snape and Dumbledore so that Snape could still have the confidence of Voldy. That certainly does have plausibility because with that you can explain Snape's look of disgust (hatred I can understand but disgust?), D's half hearted plea and D's confidence in Snape even after Harry told D about Snape's unbreakable vow.
I've read another theory with says that the last hocrifux (or whatever it's called) is Harry's scar though I doubt there is factual evidence to support it.
I wrote:
Yeah, I started looking for evidence that DD knew what was going to happen as soon as I finished the book. There are a lot of supicious signs. I will elaborate later, as I have to go to Driver's Ed right now.
The only evidence I can think of is the powers that were transferred to Harry when Voldy tried to kill him. Dumbledore never explained that properly. How exactly did Harry get those powers? How are horcruxes made, exactly? We know you have to kill someone, and Voldemort had just killed the Potters. But Dumbledore also thought that he intended to make his last Horcrux on Harry's murder, so I doubt he would turn Harry into a Horcrux just to kill him and make a new one. But on to the Dumbledore/ Snape theory.
Here is the beginning of what will eventually be a very extensive list.
Suspicious signs in order of appearance:
QUOTE(HBP pg 22):
"Bellatrix," he (Snape) replied, his thin mouth curving into a slightly mocking smile as he closed the door with a snap behind him.
Why is he mocking Bellatrix? I may be wrong, but I don't think he has ever acted that way in front of any members of the Order of the Phoenix before. Well, except Sirius, but he is *ahem* a special case. Snape doesn't strike me as the type of person ever to be anyone's man "through and through" like Harry is to Dumbledore. He seems to find Bellatrix's loyalty to Voldy amusing. Very strange...
QUOTE(HBP pg 34):
(Snape:) "He intends me to do it in the end, I think. But he is determined that Draco should try first. You see, in the unlikely event that Draco succeeds, I shall be able to stay a Hogwarts a little longer, fullfilling my useful role as spy."
This is quite odd. With Dumbledore dead, who would there be to spy on? There might not even be a Hogwarts. Voldemort would have known what would happen if the headmaster died. Of all people, he knew how important Dumbledore was to the school. Another interesting unanswerable question: why did Voldemort not want to do the job personally? He usually does that with the important wizards. And why didn't he attempt to take the school following the chaos of Dumbledore's death? Where is he in all of this? Seeing as how he is back, I really did not expect another book that he was not in. That is one of the most ominous things to me.
QUOTE(HBP pg 36):
"And, should it prove necessary... if it seems Draco will fail..." whispered Narcissa (Snape's hand twitched within hers, but he did not draw away), "will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco to perform?" There was a moment's silence. Bellatrix watched, her wand upoon their clasped hands, her eyes wide. "I will," said Snape.
This is very weird. If Snape is really a traitor, why would his hand twitch. He doesn't strike me as a remorseful traitor, or a fearful one either. And what's with the silence? He had no problem agreeing to the other vows. If he is truly on Voldy's side, why would he have any hesitation at all? He would have done things like this before. He would have betrayed Dumbledore before this. He would already be treacherous and would have no reason to hesitate now.
Chapter 3 has a few oddities. Why did Dumbledore come to get Harry personally this time? I know, I know, the Slughorn thing, but I think there is more to it than that. Also, the bigger question is, why didn't he come to get Harry in his first year? It seems to be the practice that a teacher from Hogwarts comes to explain the magical world to muggle-borns. We should ask Hermione.It seems odd to me that Dumbledore would not want to pick up his extremely important charge himself. But as he said, he trusts Hagrid with his life. Still...
Also in chapter 3, why does Dumbledore find it necessary to insure Harry's protection for next year? In the past, that has always happened at the beginning of the summer. Why the difference this year? Surely Dumbledore could have *spoken* to the Dursleys at the end of term if they showed signs of wanting to chuck Harry out. That is, he could have if he hadn't died, but he didn't know he was going to die, did he? Also, the Dursleys hadn't shown any particular desire to kick Harry out this year. Why mention it now?
QUOTE(HBP pg 57):
"If there is an attack," said Dumbledore, "I give you permission to use any counterjinx or curse that might occur to you. However, I do not think you need to worry about being attacked tonight." "Why not, sir?" "You are with me," said Dumbledore simply.
This is quite ominous. Dumbledore isn't the type to take any danger lightly, and he wasn't able to protect Harry at the Department of Mysteries. Harry had to get out of it himself. Why should this be any different? And of all people, Dumbledore would not risk Harry's life. No, this sounds to me as if he already knows of Voldy's plans for his death, and that there is no threat to his life. Yet. It seems to me as though he knew, somehow, that Voldemort would not confront him, and so as long as Harry was with him, he would be safe for the most part.
BTW~ I'm going to try and keep this entry to the Dumbledore/ Snape theory. I've started a new thread on RAB and I'll start one on the Horcruxes.
QUOTE(HBP pg 67):
"I (Dumbledore) am undoubtedly slower than I was. But on the other hand..." He shrugged and spread his hands wide, as though to say that age had it's compensations, and Harry noticed a ring on his uninjured hand that he had never seen Dumbledore wear before: It was large, rather clumsily made of what looked like gold, and was set with a heavy black stone that had cracked down the middle. Slughorn's eyes lingered for a moment on the ring too, and Harry saw a tiny frown momentarily crease his wide forehead.
Odd... Why did Dumbledore wear the ring to meet Slughorn? I'm guessing from Slughorn's frown that he recognized it. Is Dumbledore *completely* sure he got all that curse out of it? Weird.
QUOTE(HBP pg 72):
"Well, yes, it is true that He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named has never sought a fight with Dumbledore," he muttered grudgingly.
Never? Interesting... I mean, Harry has thwarted him plenty of times, and yet he takes pretty much every opportunity to try and kill him, even though he knows Dumbledore can't kill him but Harry can. I mean, he is a bully and so probably a coward, but still, he's arrogant, and I'm still not quite sure why he didn't want to finish Dumbledore himself. In any case, this is an ominous bit of foreshadowing.
QUOTE(HBP @ Albus Dumbledore, pg 79):
Yes, I think it is time that I took a greater hand in your education.
This doesn't really tell all that much, but it does bring up a point I was wondering about the other day. Why do they call him Professor Dumbledore when he doesn't necessarily teach anything. I mean, Harry is really the only one who actually learns anything from him, isn't he? And even then it is usually one of Dumbledore's controlled *accidents* like the Mirror of Erised. But the storm is brewing from here, I think. The time to hide things from Harry has ended, or has it? Has Dumbledore really gotten past his love for Harry and is now ready to let him face his destiny? I don't think so, somehow.
QUOTE(HBP pg 109):
"I know, jus' like old times, innit? See, the Ministry wanted ter send a bunch o' Aurors, but Dumbledore said I'd do," said Hagrid proudly...
Interesting, that is the second time Dumbledore has sent Harry to Diagon Alley with Hagrid. He trusts him more than Aurors. It seems that Harry's protectors are not completely gone.
QUOTE(HBP @ Narcissa Malfoy, pg 113):
I see that being Dumbledore's favorite has given you a false sense of security, Harry Potter. But Dumbledore won't always be around to protect you.
Whoa. Okay, this woman just removed all doubt about what Draco's mission is. Did anybody catch this the first time around? Anybody who didn't already suspect that Dumbledore's death was imminent?
QUOTE(HBP pg 156):
He tried to make a sound, even a grunt, but it was impossible. Then he remembered that some wizards, like Dumbledore, could perform spells without speaking, so he tried to summon his wand, which had fallen out of his hand, by saying the words "Accio Wand!"...
Okay, well we know about nonverbal spells, but what about wandless spells? In his final scene, Dumbledore did not have a wand. Is wandless magic possible? I'll have to check my facts, but I remember there being some evidence for it. If it is possible, was Dumbledore too incapacitated by the potion to perform it, or was he unwilling to do so? After all, I think he could have stunned Draco first and then immobilized Harry, if he had really wanted to get away, but more on that when we come to it. Keep your eyes open for wandless magic though.
QUOTE(HBP pg 166):
"Professor Snape, meanwhile," said Dumbledore, raising his voice so that it carried over all the muttering, "will be taking over the position of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher." "No!" said Harry, so loudly that many heads turned in his direction. He did not care; he was staring up at the staff table, incensed. How could Snape be given the Defense Against the Dark Arts job after all this time? Hadn't it been widely known for years that Dumbledore did not trust him to do it?... "Well, there's one good thing," he said savagely. "Snape'll be gone by the end of the year." "What do you mean?" asked Ron. "That job's jinxed. No one's lasted more than a year....Quirrell actually died doing it....Personally, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for another death...."
Okay, okay, hold on. We know from later in the book that Dumbledore also thinks that job is cursed and that he thinks that Voldemort did it. So did Dumbledore not want Snape doing the Dark Arts job because Snape was too valuable to lose after one year, or because, like Harry says, he didn't trust him to do it? And if Dumbledore knows the job is cursed, then why let Snape take it at all, unless he knows that Snape will be gone anyway?
QUOTE(HBP pg 169):
"Dumbledore uses the name," said Harry stubbornly. "Yeah, well, tha's Dumbledore, innit?" said hagrid mysteriously.
Okay, everyone probably thinks I'm reading way too much into this by now, but hey, what the heck. Anyways, I think Dumbledore's name cropped up a lot more than normal in this book. Also if you take this book at face value, we haven't seen a whole lot of evidence on why everyone is so in awe of Dumbledore. I mean, okay, he is obviously very powerful, but so is Harry. Dumbledore's *thing* comes from his wisdom and seeming omniscience. So why was was everything such a disaster in book 6? The Department of Mysteries fiasco was understandable, but this? Some complex master-plan of having Snape kill him to free Harry seems much more Dumbledore-ish to me.
QUOTE(HBP @ Albus Dumbledore, pg 197)
Naturally I do, but as I have already proven to you, I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being--forgive me--rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger.
So... Is this a clue that Dumbledore has made a grave mistake, or a red herring to throw us off guard and believe, like Harry, that Dumbledore messed up?
QUOTE(HBP pg 199):
"Sir--how did you injure your hand?" Harry asked again, looking at the blackened fingers with a mixture of revulsion and pity. "Now is not the moment for that story Harry. Not yet. We have an appointement with Bob Ogden."
This really annoys me. Why does Dumbledore continue to refuse to tell Harry what happened? Even by the end, we don't know what really happened, just that it was a horcrux. Did he just not want to tell about the horcruxes yet? What happened to the "thrilling tale?" I was expecting to hear more than "it was cursed."
Myself (on OO.net) wrote:
QUOTE(non-contradictor @ Jul 19 2005, 02:57 PM):
What happened to the "thrilling tale?" I was expecting to hear more than "it was cursed."
That bothered me too. Did you get the feeling that the book was rushed? It was shorter for one thing, than Order of the Phoenix and Goblet of Fire, and the description of the school year went something like: all of a sudden its Christmas, they had a harried week, their classes were hard etc. No real description. I can't help wondering - all of the inconsistencies you're picking up in the book - do you think Rowling might have gotten careless? I would have rather have waited than gotten an inferior book as a result...
I wrote:
I don't know really. It's so hard to tell until the series is finished, whether something is a mistake or a clue. This book seems like it is really straightforward. That makes me suspicious. Maybe it's just because the series is now nearing its end, or maybe it is hiding something. The thing that struck me as really weird in this book is that Harry was never in real danger. Where was Voldemort in all of this? I think it's not that descriptive because... nothing was really going on, which makes it all the weirder... I guess we'll just have to see. But I'm still very curious. Where was Voldemort in all of this?
QUOTE(HBP pg 207):
"That's right!" roared Gaunt. For a moment, Harry thought he was making an obscence hand gesture, but then realized that he was showing Ogden the ugly, black stoned ring he was wearing on his middle finger, waving it before Ogden's eyes. "See this? See this? Know what it is? Know where it came from? Centuries it's ben in our family, that's how far back we go, and pure-blood all the way! Know how much I've been offered for this, with the Peverell coat of arms engraved on the stone?"
Okay, so we're sure that this ring is the one Voldy used as a horcrux and that it is the one that Dumbledore now has. Keep an eye on it, I doubt that we've heard all of the story behind it.
QUOTE(HBP pg 215):
Dumbledore considered Harry for a moment, then said, "Yes, I think Mr. Weasley and Miss Granger have proved themselves trustworthy. But Harry, I am going to ask you to ask them not to repeat any of this to anybody else. It would not be a good idea if word got around how much I know, or suspect, about Lord Voldemort's secrets."
Hmmm... If nothing else, this is another example of Dumbledore's trust. It is surely not misplaced in the case of Ron and Hermione, however, how much contact has Dumbledore actually had with them? Also, why doesn't he want anyone else to know? Surely the Order could help destroy the Horcruxes. Does he suspect someone else to be a traitor? Or is he just being careful? But since when is Dumbledore careful about who he trusts? The bigger question, I suppose, is: does Snape know about the Horcruxes? Since Dumbledore was so sure he was trustworthy, would he have told him? I mean, he would have had to have said something when Snape helped him defeat whatever curse was on the ring. What did he tell him? More questions than answers, as usual. *sigh*
QUOTE(HBP pg 215):
He turned away again, and was almost at the door when he saw it. Sitting on one of the little spindle-legged tables that supported so many frail-looking instruments, was an ugly gold ring set with a large, cracked, black stone.
There's that ring again. And Dumbledore still won't tell us how he injured his hand. Strange...
QUOTE(HBP pg 233):
"He's got no chance of persuading Snape," said Harry, the moment Slughorn was out of earshot. "This detention's already been postponed once; Snape did it for Dumbledore, but he won't do it for anyone else."
This probably doesn't mean anything, but I have to point out any sentence that mentions both Snape and Dumbledore.
QUOTE(HBP pg 237):
Where was Dumbledore, and what was he doing? Harry caught sight of the headmaster only twice over the next few weeks. He rarely appeared at meals anymore, and Harry was sure Hermione was right in thinking that he was leaving the school for days at a time. Had Dumbledore forgotten the lessons he was supposed to be giving Harry? Dumbledore had said that the lessons were leading to something to do with the prophecy; Harry had felt bolstered, comforted, and now he felt slightly abandoned.
Poor Harry. For him, becoming dependent on someone is like a death sentence on them. This moment is slightly reminiscent of OotP as well. I couldn't help being annoyed with Dumbledore in that book, because he didn't seem to realize that he was all Harry had at Hogwarts anymore. Now there's no one. *sniff* I can't help but still think it was necessary though. If Dumbledore was still alive, Harry would stay at Hogwarts until Voldemort found a way to capture him again, or he would go after him, but Dumbledore would go as well. There is only room for one anti-Voldemort and Harry finally has to take up the job for himself. I don't think he could have done so if Dumbledore was still alive.
QUOTE(HBP pg 239):
On the other hand, the Prince had proved a much more effective teacher than Snape so far.
Okay, okay, hold on. They're the same person! Why is Snape a better teacher in a textbook? Also, how did he figure out all those tricks to potions? Would he have taught them to the students? Is this another case of Harry's emotions getting the better of him, or are those potions and spells actually easier than the ones Snape gives them in class?
QUOTE(HBP pg 241):
"Maybe your dad did use it, Harry," said Hermione, "but he's not the only one. We've seen a whole bunch of people use it, in case you've forgotten. Dangling people in the air. Making them float along, asleep, helpless."
Did Snape teach the Death Eaters his spell? Somehow, I don't see him teaching them anything. He's much too scathing for that. I don't see him enjoying muggle torment either. See, I still can't imagine him evil. Like Bellatrix-evil. I don't see him doing anything unless there was something to be gained from it. I can't imagine him killing for fun like the other Death Eaters do. What is it with him? I'm not sure if he's Dumbledore's man, but I'm pretty sure he's not Voldemort's. Maybe he's just Snape. In any case, I'm going off topic. How did James learn the spell? Surely Snape didn't teach him.
QUOTE(HBP @ Harry Potter, pg 241):
If he'd been a budding Death Eater he wouldn't have been boasting about being 'half-blood,' would he?
*bitter chuckle* I guess he would. But... Why? Snape called Lily a mudblood, why would he call himself half-blood? Did he not care about the blood thing? Then why would he become a Death Eater? Forget Snape's reasons for changing sides, I'm starting to wonder why he ever joined Voldy in the first place.
QUOTE(HBP pg 242):
"Thanks, Ginny... It's Dumbledore's next lesson!" Harry told Ron and Hermione, pulling open the parchment and quickly reading it's contents. "Monday evening!" He felt suddenly light and happy.
Why do all the people who make Harry happy keep dying? Poor Harry... Like I said, making Harry happy is a death sentence.
QUOTE(HBP @ Minerva McGonagall, pg 252):
Take this necklace to Professor Snape at once, but be sure not to touch it, keep it wrapped in the scarf!
Interesting. It seems that the teachers have been given orders to have Snape deal with any dark stuff. That's quite strange as we have been told that Dumbledore thought teaching DADA would bring about a "relapse." But this year, Dumbledore not only lets him teach defense, he hands him all the dark objects that enter the school! Is anyone else disturbed by this sudden change? It is Snape that helps Dumbledore fight the ring's curse. McGonagall takes the necklace to Snape. Dumbledore asks for Snape in his weakened potion-induced state. What is going on here? Is Dumbledore testing him? Was that confrontation at the end supposed to prove to Harry which side Snape was on, with disatrous results? Very fishy, and highly depressing either way.
That's enough to be going on with, I think. Anyway, my theories were all but shot down by JKR's recent interview with Emerson and Melissa from Mugglenet and the Leaky Cauldron, respectively.
Note: re-posted from my old OO.net blog