A Caveat.

[richardf8]

level_head has a post worth contemplating, regardless of its slant, called UnpatrioticIt's noteworthy to my mind because it points to a way in which we, as Americans, have gotten sloppy in our thinking, especially over the past eight years, but going back farther than that even. We have become accustomed to an us and them style of thought. The right and

Comments

[ziabandito555]

its true we have gotten very much into an Us vs Them mindset. Or maybe we have always had this mindset. I can't say for certain my political awareness came about maybe in 1992 before that it was all very vague and well out of my understanding.

Still I think it will take a long time for the healing you describe to come. If it ever does. People will not put down their swords easily and people like to be in their camps.

You are right that Obama is not an ideological purist and I think he is trying to strive for the middle ground. I hope he can find it personally. i'd like to see someone try and strike a balance. Pull us in another direction but create some much needed equilibrium. Let us see then.

[bluerain]

I see it already among my friends. Anger that Pastor Rick Warren was given a leading role in the proceedings, ignoring the fact that Bishop Gene Robinson was there as well.I actually think it's grossly unfair to cast anyone who is angry at the selection of Warren as displaying an "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality

[richardf8]

Raine,

I'm telling you what you can expect from this president. For reasons that are at once different from and similar to yours I'm not a fan of Rick Warren myself. This is a man who believes that I am going to hell because I am not willing to worship his god-man. Today words from my liturgy passed through his unholy lips, and you can bet it felt like some blend of appropriation and condescension.

What he's got against you, he says out loud. What he's got against me, he says where he thinks I won't hear. I don't know which is better or worse, but regardless of what you may think of him, I'll wager that at least you don't imagine he's trying to game you

[bluerain]

But there was something that bugged me about what you said on the matter, so I will make this plain: you do not have the market cornered on having people trying to kill you because of who you are.

Not the point.

The point is, if an anti-semite had been selected to give the invocation and you were angry about it, I would be angry about it along with you. I would not lecture you pompously about how you needed to make nice with anti-semites if they happened to agree with you on some unrelated matter.

You know not of what you speak, in this case. Seriously.

[jesterstear]

Damn right.

I was talking with my brother about this the other night, and how I'm really disappointed with the selection of "America's Pastor."

The man is a hate-monger. I can understand reaching out to those that disagree with you on a level of how to fix the economy, etc... but you do not reach out to people that actively encourage others to treat fellow Americans as lesser beings simply over the fact that they were born different. It's wrong, and it has no place in our politics. As Americans, these people have the right to believe what they want - no matter how ignorant and misguided and hateful. They do not, however, have the right to be given recognition by the government.

But that's Democrats for you. When they win, they seem to get guilty and bend over backwards to appease everyone they just defeated.

[orv]

I hope you're wrong.

Part of the reason we've drifted so far to the right as a nation is that Republicans always try to remain ideologically pure, and Democrats always compromise to try to make nice. This lets Republicans effectively run things even when they're not in the majority, and makes the Democrats look weak when they should be strong.

Our ideology will never prevail if we continually try to "out nice" the other party. Politics doesn't work that way.

[richardf8]

I hope I'm wrong too. I hope his goal is to shift things to the left with care. But some of his cabinet appointments suggest otherwise.

[orv]

You say that, but your post is endorsing bipartisanship and compromise -- which, after long, painful experience, I've learned actually means "Democrats doing whatever Republicans tell them to do."

[bluerain]

And gays getting thrown under the bus.

[xiphias]

I see in Obama a practical moderate.

Gotta admit, I'm comfortable with a practical moderate.

[bluerain]

Thank you for updating your post. I'm still not in 100% agreement with you about this--but that's the point, isn't it? :)

And I'm sorry for arguing as stridently as I did, but this is something I feel strongly about. For years and years I've had to put up with people, even other liberals with the best of intentions, telling me and people like me that we have to accept homophobia as just another legitimate side of the issue. It makes me bristle, and I consider it a moral obligation to speak up.

[richardf8]

Thanks for that.

I was arguing back as hard as I was because the last few weeks have left me feeling a bit raw myself.