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dubdobdee June 25 2008, 22:34:44 UTC
i think i'd want to rely on a more careful cultural historian than this guy (whose expertise seems to be torture rather than music) before putting too much weight on the fact of a transition over the shorter timescale (90s to now): as you say, rock was used as noise-war in panama (and not just GnR), plus "rock the casbah" was definitely featured in the gulf war 1 theatre (tho i forget how); plus i'm fairly sure the "ride of valkyries" scene in "apocalypse now" builds off stories of 60s acid rock being blasted from copter-loudspeakers in vietnam; anyway, the idea that US rock and the US military were poles apart but are no longer is i think a bit questionable -- what's new here is the public tolerance for torture in military circumstance, rather than rock's role in apsects of military life ( ... )

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anonymous June 26 2008, 09:01:35 UTC
I've always thought it hogwash that rock was inherently 'oppositional'. It's barely even working class these days. If anything, it goes no further than the 'generation gap' (itself overcome as we now have our own - and our parents - youth resold back to us again and and again). The birth of rock was a perfect supplement to a new imperial power - aggressive (and indulgent) group masculinity as the highest form of 'freedom'. Movies, games, clothes and gadgets all use use rock's marketing tropes now - selling ideas of freedom, community, independence and carefree youth (handy for getting 18 - 35 year olds to spend way beyond their means ( ... )

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tom_may June 27 2008, 08:37:12 UTC
All very true; it has not seriously functioned as an opposition in many specific cases.

For anyone to hold to the position that it is intrinsically oppositional, 'rebellious' &c. ought to been seen as inherently laughable. But instead this is the default mindset and language of the current UK media.

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I was thinking about the same topic... alanconnor July 14 2008, 11:44:23 UTC
...this (without wishing to appear spammy) being the result.

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