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[roguedemon]

Hi everybody. I just wanted to briefly say that when I diallowed comments on my journal entry after putting it up yesterday, I wasn't trying to tell everyone to take a flying leap or anything. I just had wanted to rant briefly while letting people know what was up. However, I really didn't want to talk about it further at the time for all kinds of

Comments

[ljs]

Hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs.....

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I'll try to answer your question. For me, it's not always that the woman is weak or a cipher -- I liked Fred a lot, although I'm right with you with the Wes/Fred loathing. (Cameron, not so much liking, but well....) But I think you're really onto something by comparing those ships.

In both those 'ships, wouldn't you say that the male character considers the woman better/less-broken/more-innocent than she, or anyone, is? Certainly better/less-broken/more-innocent than *he* is? Heck, isn't that early Buffy/Angel too? The man is attracted to the perceived lack of complication, because he's complicated enough for five guys. ;-)

Of course Fred, and Cameron, and Buffy, are much more broken *and* tougher than the male characters think -- but the writing often reflects the male character's POV.

I don't know what to conclude from that, but it's not a 'ship pattern I respond to.

[hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs]

[roguedemon]

In both those 'ships, wouldn't you say that the male character considers the woman better/less-broken/more-innocent than she, or anyone, is? Certainly better/less-broken/more-innocent than *he* is?

Yes, I think that's right. And you are quite right with the Buffy thing too. I also felt that when they tried to get Cordelia together with Angel, she was suddenly shoved into this pattern.

I would also say that in storytelling that takes place on the screen a weaker or less devloped female character is slapped together with a stronger male character, period, simply to serve the plot.

I'm not sure what to conclude either, except that I do observe mismatches in real life, and while they can go both ways, it often does seem that a strong man can often be seen with a woman is weaker, in many ways, than himself. This isn't the way in my relationship, but I can give real-life examples. I often wondered if women were often conditioned to act weaker in some way -- to mask their brains and strength.

((hugs back )) ; )