Comments | rose71: meta: Jack in "Doctor Who: End of Time"

rose71

meta: Jack in "Doctor Who: End of Time"

Jan 04, 2010 00:11

Enough about the long drawn-out exit of RTD as lead writer David Tennant as Ten. (Just kidding--I'm sad too.) Now it's time to talk about the most important 97 seconds of Doctor Who this year... the reappearance of Jack!

SPOILERS BELOW THE CUT

( A time lord walks into a bar... )

torchwood, jack harkness, meta, doctor who

Comments 30

setos_puppy January 4 2010, 09:31:46 UTC

This.

It's perfect.

rose71 January 4 2010, 21:22:10 UTC

Thanks for reading! What's perfect is your icon. After seeing the new canon, I'm even more nostalgic for the good old days of Jack and Nine, before all this betrayal and distrust and complication.

setos_puppy January 4 2010, 21:34:12 UTC

Here's hoping that Jack and Eleven can one day return to that.

rose71 January 5 2010, 04:04:40 UTC

Here's hoping that Jack and Eleven can one day return to that.

Cheers to that! (Though early casting spoilers seem to suggest no Jack in the Eleven series. Sad.)

Aargh, gas mask zombies!

buckle_berry January 4 2010, 11:55:30 UTC

aw man. my familiarity with the canon of both shows is, um, casual to say the least, and the significance of that scene had totally passed me by. this is lovely. thank god for fangirls!

rose71 January 4 2010, 21:24:20 UTC

Aww, thanks! My work here is done! Getting casual watchers to think about the immense, earth-shattering significance of 90 seconds of Captain Jack. *smile*

thank god for fangirls!
Thank god for LJ, where we can all support each other in our infinitely various fannish obsessions.

lareinenoire January 4 2010, 13:46:11 UTC

Jack is brooding and drinking alone, and the Doctor actually has to REMIND HIM TO FLIRT WITH SOMEONE. How could there be a clearer sign that something is wrong with Jack? And then there's Ten finally accepting Jack and trying to restore him to himself--instead of snarking at him for being a Big Damn Immortal Flirt. And that's what the Doctor can best give Jack at this point. Jack sure doesn't need to have his life saved, like Martha or Luke.

Oh, my goodness, YES. A THOUSAND TIMES, YES.

I couldn't put my finger on why I liked this scene and was wondering if I'd misplaced my brain since so many people on my flist hated it (for the Ianto-related connotations), but you've pinned it down exactly.

The Doctor is giving Jack the only thing he can -- understanding.

And I love the Casablanca parallels. Dammit, now I want to write fic about that.

rose71 January 4 2010, 21:33:04 UTC

The Doctor is giving Jack the only thing he can -- understanding.
Oh, that's beautifully put. I'm so glad you agree with me about this scene. While I completely understand people being upset for Ianto-related reasons, I personally didn't feel that way, so I've been trying to articulate why.

And I love the Casablanca parallels. Dammit, now I want to write fic about that.
How much would I love to see you write that fic? (Answer: a lot.) You know, there's a film-related TW fic comm going on right now at reel_torchwood.
(I have trouble writing fic, but I'm always hoping to be the "cause that wit fic is in others," as Sir John would say.)

lareinenoire January 4 2010, 23:32:27 UTC

I've also linked you to a bunch of other people and they all agree too, so you're doing well on the meta. :) And I really do think you're on to something about Jack's drinking, which wasn't something I'd really noticed before, but once you mentioned it, I immediately began to remember a lot of the scenes you included.

HEE. I might well. Although I am currently writing an insane modern Richard III au that bears an alarming resemblance to CSI...

rose71 January 5 2010, 04:02:06 UTC

Oh, awesome about the linking, and about the people agreeing. Thanks!

And also awesome about your insane Richard/CSI fic. You truly are the queen of unexpected crossovers! (Which gives me hope for further DW/TW or Gossip Girl from you...)

Thread 5

51stcenturyfox January 4 2010, 14:17:22 UTC

And then there's Ten finally accepting Jack and trying to restore him to himself--instead of snarking at him for being a Big Damn Immortal Flirt. And that's what the Doctor can best give Jack at this point. Jack sure doesn't need to have his life saved, like Martha or Luke.

Well said. Acceptance has always been something Jack has always sought from the Doctor, even before becoming immortal and "wrong" in his eyes. "I remade Torchwood 'in your image'," Jack tells him. So much of what he's done has been an attempt to gain simple acceptance and respect for the person he is and has become.

Han Solo. Yeah.

sparklydrone January 4 2010, 14:20:57 UTC

...Jack/Jabba the Hut?

51stcenturyfox January 4 2010, 14:26:45 UTC

I can't think of Jabba without thinking of Chet in Weird Science.

Wait. Ok. Brain bleach. Whew. :)

rose71 January 5 2010, 04:14:55 UTC

Acceptance has always been something Jack has always sought from the Doctor, even before becoming immortal and "wrong" in his eyes. "I remade Torchwood 'in your image'," Jack tells him.
So true, and beautifully put. One of the saddest things about the Jack story line is that he seems finally to gain acceptance from Nine, and then loses it again through no fault of his own (for once)--with the whole transition to Ten and the "wrong" immortality.

Han Solo. Yeah.
Totally. Except that Han would never shag Chewie. (I assume you know which brilliant DW fic I mean.) Oh, Jack.

neifile7 January 4 2010, 14:31:29 UTC

I will have to rewatch the scene again, but I'm not 100% sure that Jack is actually drinking alcohol (and who knows, on this planet water might well be one of those drinks that costs a bomb). But I agree with what it means for him to be there, and what the Doctor's gesture might signify.

I'm also entranced with the exchange of salutes, which echoes Jack's departure in S3 LotTL -- the moment when he voluntarily leaves the Doctor and chooses to go back to TW. The Doctor is and will always be Jack's CO, regardless of what else changes -- and how resonant and ironic is it to have Jack treat the Doctor's gesture as a kind of command?

rose71 January 5 2010, 04:29:13 UTC

I'm not 100% sure that Jack is actually drinking alcohol (and who knows, on this planet water might well be one of those drinks that costs a bombAh, you come in like a good detective to unsettle my assumptions! In the spirit of fannish close exegesis, I've just rewatched the scene three times in an effort to figure out what Jack is drinking. It doesn't look quite clear, but it could be water with light in it. His body language suggests boozing (taking a bunch of short sips quickly, and sort of rolling it around before it goes down). But that could be the way he drinks water these days. Maybe Jack is still on the wagon--and setting himself apart from others in the bar (and from his old partying self) even more that way ( ... )