Fighting Words

[saeva]

This rant has been building for a long time. Months, if not years. It may offend people. It may upset people. And I'd say I'm sorry about that but I'm not -- people need to be offended and upset about this. They need to realize exactly how disturbing and creepy it is

Comments

[nakeisha]

Here via metafandomYou are right in what you say and my husband hates it when I use the term. So I have made a conscious effort to stop using it for some time now and I personally use 'promote' instead, when talking about 'promoting a community' rather than 'pimping a community'. But I still find myself slipping from time to time - especially when talking about 'I was pimped into a fandom', because off hand I can't find a simple term to replace that - unlike 'promote' when 'promoting' something. I shall try even harder

[saeva]

Oh, I know what you mean. I icon and as big as it is in fic reccing, it's HUGE in iconning. Iconning just doesn't use the word "rec" at all, that I've found. Instead, they do use pimp. Pimp my icons. Pimp this comm. Pimp this show, isn't it so pretty? Pimp this LIMS. And then I find myself, excited about a new LIMS (Last Icon Maker Standing) contest, typing the word "pimp" before going "No. Wait." and backtracking to use promote. But it's a struggle. I have to remind myself. I understand a lot of people really don't want to bother

[nakeisha]

And it can be very difficult to be alone in the general terminology.

Rec is good for fiction, songvids
Promote for a comm/ficathon, that kind of thing.

'Tempted' might work. Mind you, I've only been encouraged into one fandom, normally I get myself into them, and then I ended up going for the opposite pairing to the person who had brought the show to my attention ;-)

I'm glad to hear you've had mostly positive replies, I can quite understand your concern - I thought you were brave to make the post. Kudos to you.

I hope the finals went well.

also here via metafandom

[pensnest]

'I was pimped into a fandom'

Tempted? Lured? Enticed? 'Enticed' is a lovely word!

saw this linked on metafandom

[ashenmote]

I'm ESL and the word slowly slipped into my passive vocabulary by fannish osmosis. And then, the one time I used it in a post myself I somehow felt really weird about it, so I typed it into my online dictionary, and yeah...that was definitely not the meaning I was looking for. That was a little bit confusing.

I've been wondering since how the fannish use of 'pimping' came about.

Re: saw this linked on metafandom

[naath]

Outside of fandom I see "pimp" used most commonly in connection with cars "Pimp my ride" which is the name of a show on MTV to do with making cars look 'better'; I don't know where they got the name from.

Re: saw this linked on metafandom

[lennoxmacbeth]

It refers to the sort of vehicles and style that pimps stereotypically surround themselves with.

Re: saw this linked on metafandom

[lennoxmacbeth]

I've been wondering since how the fannish use of 'pimping' came about.

It's from fannish culture being overly-influenced by American culture. American culture has a long history of using words that reflect aggression, dominance, and abusive behaviors toward others. It's the same reason we have words like "nigger-rigged", "gay" (as in, "that's so gay"), "fag"/"faggot", "cunt", "jewed" (akin to "gypped", for those who don't know - "gypped" may have come from across the Pond, but it took off in American culture as well).

Having a word like "pimp" appear in fannish culture is just an extension of the larger cultural influence.

[mskatej]

Can this not simply be amelioration? I certainly don't see how it's comparable to the n-word.

Here from Metafandom

[buongiornodaisy]

I certainly don't see how it's comparable to the n-word.

Er, yeah. Neither do I. There's a big, big difference between a word used to describe someone's profession and a word used to degrade someone for something they can't help -- i.e. the "b", "n" and "f" words.

Re: Here from Metafandom

[anjak_j]

While I agree the comparison is way off, I think you are understating 'pimp' as just a word to 'describe someone's profession'.

A pimp is a leech who exploits people - mainly women - who are already generally in vulnerable situations to further their own means. I'd personally be stretched to call that a 'profession'.

Re: Here from Metafandom

[lennoxmacbeth]

Actually it's one of the oldest professions in the world. The two go hand-in-hand.

(here from metafandom)

[hafren]

I don't care for the word and don't use it, but I can't say I feel offended when others do, because I know they are using it metaphorically. Is it any different from saying "I could murder a ham sandwich" - and should we avoid saying that in case it upsets the relatives of murder victims? Or would that be very slightly OTT?

Re: (here from metafandom)

[tiferet]

I have to admit that while I typically don't use the word I have much the same reaction.

Re: (here from metafandom)

[10littlebullets]

This.

To my mind, "pimping a comm" belongs to the same class of language as "can I steal your icon?" or "I'd kill for a drink right now." Basically, applying a word for something horrible to something innocuous, for ironic or hyperbolic effect. And while involvement in the sex trade, which itself is involved in the systematic oppression and exploitation of women, is pretty horrible, it's the nastiness of the original act that supplies the effect.

I know issues of systematic oppression (sexism, racism, classism, etc.) are really thorny, but in this case I don't feel like language is perpetuating the oppression--because using that particular form of irony doesn't glamorize pimps, it puts them in the same class of "scum being trivialized" as thieves, murderers, and other lowlifes.

Re: (here from metafandom)

[saeva]

But theft and murder aren't actions that are perpetuated in vast majority against one class. To say that "I'd kill for a drink right now" is the same as "I'm a total pimp." is to say that it's the same as "I nigger-rigged this thing." (If you're confused to the meaning, "jerry-rigged" has widely replaced it.)

Now, since murder is statistically more likely to happen to men and to be perpetrated by men, if you want to make an argument that "I'd kill for..." is harmful, in general, to men then that's your argument, and rant, to make. I wouldn't agree, if only because of the systemic privilege of men and the fact that it's perpetrated against but also BY them most often.

But it's not the same thing as "I pimped this," at least not yet. It's not hyperbole. And it's an issue of systemic abuse of power, where murder isn't. [Now, if you wanted to make an argument that it's like "I'd kill a bitch for...," which is a variation I've seen, I'd probably be right there with you. But, then, I also object to that usage.]

Here via metafandom

[wishfulclicking]

Ok I see where you are coming from. I never truly considered it at that angle and I am definitely thinking about it now.
While I don't feel offended about the word in the way I would feel offended if I ran into the above words you mentioned, I can understand how that would offend someone and I can edit my diction ( I am familiar with a thesaurus :)--especially in posts for public viewing like communities.