Excerpts from the CA Supreme Court same-sex marriage opinion

[sapience]

[U]pon review of the numerous California decisions that have examined the underlying bases and significance of the constitutional right to marry (and that illuminate why this right has been recognized as one of the basic, inalienable civil rights guaranteed to an individual by the California Constitution), we conclude that, under this state's

Comments

[sapience]

Agreed. I hope the choice of language sets a powerful precedent that will help advance the legal cause across the country. In many ways, it is troubling that all Americans do not share equal civil rights, but it is certainly heartening to watch our society taking strides forward (even if we do occasionally stumble back). Perfection isn't a reasonable expectation, but knowing that we are earnestly striving toward a more perfect union certainly does feel good.

[ijournaler]

I'm old-fashioned and although I agree about the recognition of mutual rights and responsibilities in relationships between same sex couples I am worried at the thought of raising children 'within that family'. I feel children need both a father and a mother figure as role models if they are to complete their own psycho-sexual development successfully.

[sapience]

It is difficult to know where to begin with your comment. Do I start with the scientific literature that shows that the children of same-sex couples "do not differ from other children with respect to emotional or behavioral problems; gender identity; gender role behavior; or cognitive functioning"(Newman & Newman, 2006, p. 229)? Do I point out the bias in the stated argument, given that the role models offered to children of heterosexual couples or single parents are often deeply flawed? Do I explain that the theory of psycho-sexual development has been debunked by scientific research? Or do I simply express my anger at the persistence of such harmful attitudes, particularly when they manifest in my personal journal, which I prefer to think of as a space safe from such prejudice

[ijournaler]

Surely you can't want a 'safe space' where no one disagrees with you - that would be boring - I assume you want disagreement to be polite. In fact I was polite, giving my opinions - 'I am worried at the thought of...'and, 'I feel that children need both a father and a mother figure...'

You say -
'Psychology is a science. Freud's theory of psychosexual development, like most of his theories, is not scientifically valid.'
When I was at university - rather a long time ago - there was much debate about Karl Popper's work on which sciences were true sciences (capable of being tested by falsification) and which were pseudo sciences (not testable). Psychoanalysis was not able to be proved or disproved by the usual methods of scientific validation - I think this is still the position. Pseudo sciences are used according to how helpful they are in explaining things.

I had a quick look at the Patterson paper and I don't think the evidence is overwhelming - see italicised portions -

There was no evidence in any of the studies of gender

[burgundy]

I assume then that you also support policies that make it more difficult for heterosexual couples to divorce or that otherwise discourage women from becoming single mothers? There are an awful lot more children being raised in single-sex-adult families because their hetero parents didn't stick together than there are kids being raised by gay couples.

To say nothing of the fact that, regardless of sexual orientation, marriage and child-rearing are becoming increasingly decoupled. Gay couples have been raising children together for quite a while now, despite not being able to marry. Straight couples have children outside of marriage all the time. People get married and have no intention of having kids. So what does child rearing have to do with marriage equality? The kids are a fact. They are already there. sapience has given a really solid response re: the evidence on child development, but even beyond that, it makes things worse for kids if their parents don't have legal protection. In a lot of states, gay couples can only do single