a conversation on love
i am also notetaking a class on Nietzsche which is kind of interesting--i mean really interesting. are u aware of his work? he's a very depressing guy -- shitty life, very negative outlook but so hopeful too
the most negative ones are always hopeful
he was the one who said god is dead. u know that of course
yeah
but by saying that he's also saying we have this responsibility to give meaning to our lives. or, i dunno, to be accountable somehow for our own happiness and well being. he fell in love once and he asked his bestfriend to vouch for him but the bestfriend fell in love with the woman himself and so he never told her about Nietzsche. Nietzsche later says “that was the best thing that happened to me.” he said that a philosopher needs to have no bestfriend and no wife and what happened to him was like hitting two birds with one stone. I mean u just cant help but feel sorry for the guy.
yeah he's a bit morose.
he died in poverty. but still like sometimes, i think, at least im not as pathetic as Nietzsche or else i think, well nietzsche had to go through worse things and look what he accomplished...and so he's like a light.
you cant be so pessimistic without having hope though. if theres no hope then ppl would just be compliant and get used to it.
haha i guess. what do u mean u cant be pessimistic without having hope? what will u be then-just like a numb zombie? i think hope is a vulnerability because having hope makes u open to disappointment…
i dunno. but without the belief that there can be better, what need is there to be pessimistic? there's no need to be optimistic either. one just is.
…whereas if ur already expecting the worst--and i mean really expecting the worst and not just claiming ur expecting the worst when secretly ur still hoping for a savior--then u tend to be happier. but then with what u said that’s not really living.
yeah but how can you ever attain anything when you always expect the worst?
i dunno.
you never know what else can be. you only know what you think, which is the pits.
i think i am still hopeful, ultimately. and i just get hurt a lot, but i think it makes me stronger somehow.
yeah. i like to think the same thing
i feel like to be hopeless is really the worst thing. ppl who are real humanist, who love other humans-not in the erotic or friendly love-are ultimately hopeful. they still have this trust that ppl will do well by them.
it's the ultimate ideal.
sometimes i do wish i was more scabbed so i wouldnt get hurt.
ppl are afraid to believe in love.
fucking true. i hate that. even more than that, ppl are afraid to be loved
also true
i feel like i have SO MUCH capacity to love, but ppl are afraid to experience that. and so their reluctance affects me too and i never fully show how much i can love them. i dunno, i feel like im putting myself up on a pedestal when i say that but i think it's true.
i like to think that ppl with the capacity are blessed
with the capacity to what?
with the enormous capacity to love
It’s a bold declaration that doesn’t really have much to back it. it's just a feeling I have, based on how far down I fall. and it’s ridiculous how often it happens that i fall in love, with strangers even. i know there are some ppl who classify diff kinds of love and say one is more "real" or "truer" than the other. for example, there's obsession, infatuation, puppy love. but i don’t know, i feel like even the fact that you would have any of those feelings, that ur always outward looking and are attracted to others because u see something good and loveable about them…
but the capacity never goes away. it's ultimately a part of you. and if it is, and you can't shake it, and you can't help but share it sometimes.
…i feel like that is a very good thing, a good quality
yeah. then you are necessary to the world and therefore blessed.
you cant help but share, but then other ppl are too afraid to take.
then that's their problem
well i think its both ur problems. because love cant exist in a vacuum.
but its your love to give and they dont even realize how much they've been helped
as much as u claim u love the other person, if that love is not encouraged then it essentially goes to waste. the love cant be sustained. what do u think?
not being sustained and going to waste are two different things.
But if the love is not encouraged, if it's despised, it will die
then its not love
what then?
i dunno what it is. i'm 23 years old. what the fuck do i know
hahahahah
if we all just think that we'll never go anywhere. maybe what im saying now will not be correct in a couple of years, but its all a matter of perspective. what i think i know now is what i just said.
but if anyone i ever loved died, no matter how much i started to hate them, i'd still cry for days when it happened
yeah
and it doesn’t matter how much they hurt me because i still loved them
somehow there is this nostalgia. if something good like love dies, i think it should be given a grieving period, just to acknowledge that something good that once existed has passed
something like that perhaps
…or is that useless?
i was mainly just pointing out an example. but i think that ideal has to be maintained at all costs by ppl who hold it though. otherwise i dunno. the world is gonna end or something.
hahahah. yeah. i guess ppl who are blessed with this capacity must somehow also be blessed with strength or else, need to develop this strength or they will perish. maybe all those artists who ended up committing suicide, they are those types of ppl who are outward looking. they are disappointed because they have too much hope, expect too much from their fellow man
i think you're right
their need to create stems from this desire to connect. like, i cant communicate with you through the normal ways, but i have this message for you-look, listen, read. and there is this desire to connect, to convey these messages that they have for ppl, this message of connecting
and yet it doesn’t happen and they jump off a bridge
yeah
yeah i think you're right on
or else, at least, that’s how we like to romanticize them. Haha. they’re either weak or too good for this world
but i think they failed in a way because they couldn’t find a way to live
yeah
the goal is still to live. the most basic goal of life is always to live, and if you can't do that then you have failed
sometimes i feel like it's a trade off between creating and just living (surviving). i feel like to merely survive is so, i dunno, rewardless. we dont remember ppl who just “live”
yeah i think probably. but it makes it a lot harder to survive when you're stuck in your head creating
what we as a society value are those ppl who contributed to the arts or to human understanding
i think thats a mistake but i agree
well, you as an artist, which one would u pick?
i'd live
to merely survive and maybe even live a relatively long life or to create? to contribute?
no question
truly? you'd give up your talent?
absolutely
for a long life?
for a long average life. with a white picket fence and shit.
the most negative ones are always hopeful
he was the one who said god is dead. u know that of course
yeah
but by saying that he's also saying we have this responsibility to give meaning to our lives. or, i dunno, to be accountable somehow for our own happiness and well being. he fell in love once and he asked his bestfriend to vouch for him but the bestfriend fell in love with the woman himself and so he never told her about Nietzsche. Nietzsche later says “that was the best thing that happened to me.” he said that a philosopher needs to have no bestfriend and no wife and what happened to him was like hitting two birds with one stone. I mean u just cant help but feel sorry for the guy.
yeah he's a bit morose.
he died in poverty. but still like sometimes, i think, at least im not as pathetic as Nietzsche or else i think, well nietzsche had to go through worse things and look what he accomplished...and so he's like a light.
you cant be so pessimistic without having hope though. if theres no hope then ppl would just be compliant and get used to it.
haha i guess. what do u mean u cant be pessimistic without having hope? what will u be then-just like a numb zombie? i think hope is a vulnerability because having hope makes u open to disappointment…
i dunno. but without the belief that there can be better, what need is there to be pessimistic? there's no need to be optimistic either. one just is.
…whereas if ur already expecting the worst--and i mean really expecting the worst and not just claiming ur expecting the worst when secretly ur still hoping for a savior--then u tend to be happier. but then with what u said that’s not really living.
yeah but how can you ever attain anything when you always expect the worst?
i dunno.
you never know what else can be. you only know what you think, which is the pits.
i think i am still hopeful, ultimately. and i just get hurt a lot, but i think it makes me stronger somehow.
yeah. i like to think the same thing
i feel like to be hopeless is really the worst thing. ppl who are real humanist, who love other humans-not in the erotic or friendly love-are ultimately hopeful. they still have this trust that ppl will do well by them.
it's the ultimate ideal.
sometimes i do wish i was more scabbed so i wouldnt get hurt.
ppl are afraid to believe in love.
fucking true. i hate that. even more than that, ppl are afraid to be loved
also true
i feel like i have SO MUCH capacity to love, but ppl are afraid to experience that. and so their reluctance affects me too and i never fully show how much i can love them. i dunno, i feel like im putting myself up on a pedestal when i say that but i think it's true.
i like to think that ppl with the capacity are blessed
with the capacity to what?
with the enormous capacity to love
It’s a bold declaration that doesn’t really have much to back it. it's just a feeling I have, based on how far down I fall. and it’s ridiculous how often it happens that i fall in love, with strangers even. i know there are some ppl who classify diff kinds of love and say one is more "real" or "truer" than the other. for example, there's obsession, infatuation, puppy love. but i don’t know, i feel like even the fact that you would have any of those feelings, that ur always outward looking and are attracted to others because u see something good and loveable about them…
but the capacity never goes away. it's ultimately a part of you. and if it is, and you can't shake it, and you can't help but share it sometimes.
…i feel like that is a very good thing, a good quality
yeah. then you are necessary to the world and therefore blessed.
you cant help but share, but then other ppl are too afraid to take.
then that's their problem
well i think its both ur problems. because love cant exist in a vacuum.
but its your love to give and they dont even realize how much they've been helped
as much as u claim u love the other person, if that love is not encouraged then it essentially goes to waste. the love cant be sustained. what do u think?
not being sustained and going to waste are two different things.
But if the love is not encouraged, if it's despised, it will die
then its not love
what then?
i dunno what it is. i'm 23 years old. what the fuck do i know
hahahahah
if we all just think that we'll never go anywhere. maybe what im saying now will not be correct in a couple of years, but its all a matter of perspective. what i think i know now is what i just said.
but if anyone i ever loved died, no matter how much i started to hate them, i'd still cry for days when it happened
yeah
and it doesn’t matter how much they hurt me because i still loved them
somehow there is this nostalgia. if something good like love dies, i think it should be given a grieving period, just to acknowledge that something good that once existed has passed
something like that perhaps
…or is that useless?
i was mainly just pointing out an example. but i think that ideal has to be maintained at all costs by ppl who hold it though. otherwise i dunno. the world is gonna end or something.
hahahah. yeah. i guess ppl who are blessed with this capacity must somehow also be blessed with strength or else, need to develop this strength or they will perish. maybe all those artists who ended up committing suicide, they are those types of ppl who are outward looking. they are disappointed because they have too much hope, expect too much from their fellow man
i think you're right
their need to create stems from this desire to connect. like, i cant communicate with you through the normal ways, but i have this message for you-look, listen, read. and there is this desire to connect, to convey these messages that they have for ppl, this message of connecting
and yet it doesn’t happen and they jump off a bridge
yeah
yeah i think you're right on
or else, at least, that’s how we like to romanticize them. Haha. they’re either weak or too good for this world
but i think they failed in a way because they couldn’t find a way to live
yeah
the goal is still to live. the most basic goal of life is always to live, and if you can't do that then you have failed
sometimes i feel like it's a trade off between creating and just living (surviving). i feel like to merely survive is so, i dunno, rewardless. we dont remember ppl who just “live”
yeah i think probably. but it makes it a lot harder to survive when you're stuck in your head creating
what we as a society value are those ppl who contributed to the arts or to human understanding
i think thats a mistake but i agree
well, you as an artist, which one would u pick?
i'd live
to merely survive and maybe even live a relatively long life or to create? to contribute?
no question
truly? you'd give up your talent?
absolutely
for a long life?
for a long average life. with a white picket fence and shit.