Medieval / Renaissance combat techniques compared to modern ones

[serpentstar]

This is a brilliant video. I suspect that most martial artists -- whether doing Western martial arts, combat sports, MMA, whatever -- will see at least some points of similarity between what they do and what's shown here. There are, after all, only so many ways in which it's efficient to strike, throw, strangle, or otherwise injure another human

Comments

[greylock]

How's that LJ holiday working out for you?

[serpentstar]

It's a start.

[karohemd]

The medieval fighters seem to have much more fun stabbing/injuring each other. ;o)

[eyebeams]

Interesting. However . . .

1) Some of it seems to be either a slight stretch or not really deep technical material. No particular training is needed to kick somebody in the groin, for instance.

2)You can really compare the sophistication of reconstructed HEMA with other traditions because reconstructed HEMA owes a whole bunch of its reconstruction *to* those traditions, by noticing elements in a live tradition that seemed to be represented in text. Until you see a counterpart actually being demonstrated, an arm grab like the one in the movie's freeze frame could be a whole bunch of stuff. This doesn't make HEMA better or worse, but it means the question isn't even on the table.

[serpentstar]

1) Did you take a look at the article? I think the author / video-creator would agree with you. He's just pointing out points of similarity, rather than saying that one derives from the other, or that one is identical to the other. Some of those points of similarity are *very* similar, though.

2) True enough -- but since the human body hasn't greatly altered in the past 500 years, it seems 99% certain that an arm grab in HEMA whose pic looks like a snapshot of the same arm grab in judo/jits/wrestling/whatever, and whose description seems to tally, too, is the same arm grab.

[eyebeams]

1) I did read it. It was more the choice of stuff in the video.

2) There is a limited set of stuff but even within a single description you can have some big changes. Again, take the still for this video. Is it an arm drag, elbow lock or S-lock? And in many cases, the text is not exactly crystal clear.

When you have technical books in other martial arts it's typically in a context where they support an oral tradition because you have the similar issues. I think the same thing would apply here.

[serpentstar]

Oh, there are always slight variations, especially with grapples -- but when I see the same throws in Talhoffer (etc.) as I see in judo, I tend to assume that they're the same throws...

The video, as far as I'm concerned, has a mix of close parallels and exact equivalences -- enough of the latter, though, to be interesting. Obviously if you disagree, you can always not watch it again. ;)

[littlebus]

I admit I was particularly taken by a related video to the one you posted about the medieval use of "exotic" weapons such as flails, scythes, sickles, and cudgels. I love improvised weapons.

[robcee]

Proof that throughout history people have always had two arms and two legs!

Are you still training with Morris every now and again?

[serpentstar]

True enough. :)

I made it along to Primal 3 times last year, but not at all this year, for various reasons. I'd like to go along again, but my 1st priority is to find time to do Thai boxing locally again (there's a former world champion with a gym in Wrexham, so I really SHOULD go). After a few months of that, I may be really ready to train with Morris!

[robcee]

I made it to one of his open courses, about 7 people for a few hours in Gloucester.

I do debate going back occasionally, but while he is great, he isnt as groundbreaking as made out, and so I think I'll stick to the goju while I am time poor. If you ever come down to Bristol drop me a bell?

[serpentstar]

Yeah, agreed -- he's very good, and he gives great individual attention. It is kinda worth it for me to take 2 hours each way to get to a 3-hour Primal session, but OTOH I just don't always have the 7 hours to spend on a Sunday...