Christians Vs Homosexuals: The Bible
Today, we look at the bible, those who preach it and their ideals up against homosexuals, their safe passages in the bible and what the comebacks are.
Now, I have very limited qutoes from the bible that condemn homosexuality, so if you found any more, leave a comment and I'll be happy to use them. And vice versa.
1. Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
2. Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
Okay, the book of lev. has said that lying with a man as you would a woman is condemned to death. But since we are not in those times (or places) anymore, I guess we can snip the death bit off.
You want to talk the book of Leviticus? Well try this one for the gay side.
Lev 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"
Now, if I understand this correctly, this means that you should not/cannot judge anyone for anything, and that you should love them (so to put it) unconditionally. So if your neighbour is Black, Asian, Pagan, Homosexual or any of the other great ways of life, you can't judge them or hate them. And if you are to judge them, you are asking for the same judgement upon yourself. To continue this point, here is another quote.
John 5:22-23 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
"that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him."
So God died for ALL, that's ALL of our sins. So if the book of Leviticus is right in saying homosexuality is a sin, well Jesus died for our sins so we are safe from being judged for it.
Another Con
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals1, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Really? Well I guess that means a lot of heterosexuals won't be making it to those pearly gates either. Didn't think of that in their arguments did they? A lot of these things reflect heterosexuals as much as they do Homosexuals (despite us being directly listed.) But here is the counter to that.
John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
Jesus was sent to save us. He healed everyone, reguardless of whether or not that person followed their rules. He never turned anyone away because he knew that they would be forgiven when they got to Heaven. So we will be saved and forgiven, because the world will be saved and not condemned.
John 11:25-26 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
"and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
So, for all of the above listed, this quote saves them even further. If they do these things, but still believe in God and his son, Jesus, they will be saved, as it seems simple belief is enough to get you there. So, I'm sorry, but these people can still be saved if they do as follows.
John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
See? He didn't care if people didn't follow him, because he still wanted to save them from sin, satan and anything else that comes with the apocalypse. So Homosexuals, like everyone else, will be saved.
Con
4. Rom. 1:26-28, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:"
"and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"
Good call. Slight problem in the theory. Homosexual, Lesbians, etc, didn't choose to become as such, as it is not a choice. They were following their natural choices in life, because they were repulsed with the idea of getting with the opposite sex. So lets try this on for size.
Luke 18:9-14 "And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:"
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican."
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."
"I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
In this short part of a larger story, we see a man who knows he is a sinner, and a man lookig down on him for his sins. If god rejects Homosexuals who do not believe in him (which is stated clearly in the 'Con' argument,) then he is defying his own laws and judging people, and he punished those who would jusge homosexuals. So we seem to have run into a bit of a corner. But in my humble opinion, I think you'd find that, despite all other things, God didn't, doesn't, won't judge us because we didn't follow him nor because we were with another man. We were loving our Neighbours, our partners and spreading love through the world.
Now, I have to go, but, with some help from a sponsoring website, I will have a go at the many myths about homosexuality that the Christian Church has to say. Look forward to it. In the meantime, below is all the positive bible extracts that I have found. You may need to think a little outside the square if I didn't use them in the above debate.
Pro
1) John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
2)John 11:25-26 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
"and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
3)John 5:22-23 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
"that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him."
4)John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
5) Matthew 7:1-6 "Judge not, that ye be not judged."
"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Mk. 4.24)
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
6)Mark 12:30 "and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
7)Luke 11:46 "And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."
8) Luke 18:9-14 "And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:"
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican."
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."
"I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
9) Lev 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"
Now, I have very limited qutoes from the bible that condemn homosexuality, so if you found any more, leave a comment and I'll be happy to use them. And vice versa.
1. Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
2. Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
Okay, the book of lev. has said that lying with a man as you would a woman is condemned to death. But since we are not in those times (or places) anymore, I guess we can snip the death bit off.
You want to talk the book of Leviticus? Well try this one for the gay side.
Lev 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"
Now, if I understand this correctly, this means that you should not/cannot judge anyone for anything, and that you should love them (so to put it) unconditionally. So if your neighbour is Black, Asian, Pagan, Homosexual or any of the other great ways of life, you can't judge them or hate them. And if you are to judge them, you are asking for the same judgement upon yourself. To continue this point, here is another quote.
John 5:22-23 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
"that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him."
So God died for ALL, that's ALL of our sins. So if the book of Leviticus is right in saying homosexuality is a sin, well Jesus died for our sins so we are safe from being judged for it.
Another Con
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals1, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Really? Well I guess that means a lot of heterosexuals won't be making it to those pearly gates either. Didn't think of that in their arguments did they? A lot of these things reflect heterosexuals as much as they do Homosexuals (despite us being directly listed.) But here is the counter to that.
John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
Jesus was sent to save us. He healed everyone, reguardless of whether or not that person followed their rules. He never turned anyone away because he knew that they would be forgiven when they got to Heaven. So we will be saved and forgiven, because the world will be saved and not condemned.
John 11:25-26 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
"and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
So, for all of the above listed, this quote saves them even further. If they do these things, but still believe in God and his son, Jesus, they will be saved, as it seems simple belief is enough to get you there. So, I'm sorry, but these people can still be saved if they do as follows.
John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
See? He didn't care if people didn't follow him, because he still wanted to save them from sin, satan and anything else that comes with the apocalypse. So Homosexuals, like everyone else, will be saved.
Con
4. Rom. 1:26-28, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:"
"and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"
Good call. Slight problem in the theory. Homosexual, Lesbians, etc, didn't choose to become as such, as it is not a choice. They were following their natural choices in life, because they were repulsed with the idea of getting with the opposite sex. So lets try this on for size.
Luke 18:9-14 "And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:"
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican."
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."
"I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
In this short part of a larger story, we see a man who knows he is a sinner, and a man lookig down on him for his sins. If god rejects Homosexuals who do not believe in him (which is stated clearly in the 'Con' argument,) then he is defying his own laws and judging people, and he punished those who would jusge homosexuals. So we seem to have run into a bit of a corner. But in my humble opinion, I think you'd find that, despite all other things, God didn't, doesn't, won't judge us because we didn't follow him nor because we were with another man. We were loving our Neighbours, our partners and spreading love through the world.
Now, I have to go, but, with some help from a sponsoring website, I will have a go at the many myths about homosexuality that the Christian Church has to say. Look forward to it. In the meantime, below is all the positive bible extracts that I have found. You may need to think a little outside the square if I didn't use them in the above debate.
Pro
1) John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
2)John 11:25-26 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
"and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
3)John 5:22-23 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
"that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him."
4)John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
5) Matthew 7:1-6 "Judge not, that ye be not judged."
"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Mk. 4.24)
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
6)Mark 12:30 "and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
7)Luke 11:46 "And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."
8) Luke 18:9-14 "And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:"
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican."
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."
"I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
9) Lev 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"