Comments | shweta_narayan: Ugh.

shweta_narayan

Ugh.

Sep 15, 2010 16:05

Anti-immigrant, assimilationist if-they-don't-pass-as-white-it's-their-fault rage-inducing xenophobic BULLSHIT warning.

Thanks, Ms. Moon. I loved The Speed of Dark, but now you're joining Harlan Ellison in the Box of Shame.

Anyone I recommended that book to? Unrecommended.

Via maevele.

ETA: Just emailed the Wiscon concom about her being a GoH next ( Read more... )

elizabeth moon, fail, racism

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tithenai September 16 2010, 00:52:10 UTC

I think the majority of people who are taking issue with the mosque either 1) don't realize it's two blocks away, or 2) know it's two blocks away but don't really have a tangible grasp of what that physically means, or 3) are bigots looking for an excuse to hate.

This would seem to contradict the following:

Ms. Moon's comments even on the ground zero issue would be reasonable and appropriate if they were in fact building a mosque on ground zero (which of course they are not).

I don't understand if you're trying to say that the Cordoba Centre would be objectionable if it were in fact a mosque, or that Ms. Moon's objection that "the mosque builders 'should have known' that the majority of Americans would be upset" would be correct if the Cordoba Centre were in fact a mosque.

Either way, let me attempt to explain.

But, I can easily express my disagreement with Ms Moon in the spirit of free speech, without feeling uncomfortable or unsafe.My day to day reality as the child of Lebanese immigrants to Canada is that people think it's ( ... )

dwesley September 16 2010, 09:00:28 UTC

I don't understand if you're trying to say that the Cordoba Centre would be objectionable if it were in fact a mosque, or that Ms. Moon's objection that "the mosque builders 'should have known' that the majority of Americans would be upset" would be correct if the Cordoba Centre were in fact a mosque.

If a group of Christians, believing it was there holy duty under their religion, went to relatively non-Christian country and destroyed a building, killing hundreds of people, I would find it extremely inappropriate (as would the host country) to build a Christian church on that site. But, I don't think the parallel is happening at our ground zero because it is not in fact happening at ground zero, but rather two blocks away (regardless of whether it's a community center or a mosque.)

My day to day reality is one of constantly asserting and reasserting my national identities ONLY as a result of being non-white, of having a name considered unusual, of correctly pronouncing an Arabic word. I happened to be in the DC area during the 9/ ( ... )

shweta_narayan September 16 2010, 09:33:18 UTC

I think all she was doing was asking the "other" to have some empathy for her.

And in saying this, you assume an equality of power that can only be assumed by people who have disproportionate amounts of social power.

dwesley September 16 2010, 11:16:19 UTC

And in saying this, you assume an equality of power that can only be assumed by people who have disproportionate amounts of social power.

No, I'm very much aware of the inequalities of social power. Are you saying that a person on the lower end of the social power is incapable of empathizing with someone on the higher end of social power, or just that the person on the higher end of social power does not deserve to have empathy. I find either position to be slam against individuals on the lower end of the social power. I think everyone has the ability (if not the duty) to have empathy if they work at it.

(The comment has been removed)

shweta_narayan September 16 2010, 21:06:25 UTC

Yep.

Thanks for the explanation -- I simply haven't the resources to continue trying to deal with someone who fundamentally does not want to get it, but rather is using "I don't understand" as a rhetorical tool to point out how irrational and "racist-against-white-people" our stance is here.

So, my fish died... polenth September 16 2010, 11:18:21 UTC

She may or may not have empathy for the "other" (anyone different from her), but I think all she was doing was asking the "other" to have some empathy for her.You're still acting on privilege by assuming that people open a dialogue. When someone reacts badly to me, it's usually insults, threats, throwing things or following me stalker-style. I had someone try to grab me once ( ... )

Re: So, my fish died... shweta_narayan September 16 2010, 20:29:28 UTC

Thank you.

Though I'll note that, if I were one of the Others in the worst danger, I would not even be able to speak up.

So really it's considering Moon's feelings more important than the real and present danger that some people here face, which is far worse than anything I will ever face, and is silencing them -- when what Moon wants is for them to be further silenced and erased for her comfort.

Re: So, my fish died... polenth September 17 2010, 02:36:22 UTC

I agree. The people in the worst danger aren't likely to be on the internet, with time to read and respond to posts. But sometimes I think bringing it down to real people who can't be ignored helps, even if they're not the people who have it the worst.

In this discussion, it feels like it's being abstracted away to a generic 'those people' so it's easier to ignore.

Re: So, my fish died... shweta_narayan September 17 2010, 02:45:15 UTC

Gotcha.

I'm not Muslim, but I and my family have had cope with this so-called "forbearance", because the ones committing hate crimes were targeting anyone who "looked Muslim" by their... ignorant standards.

popelizbet September 17 2010, 07:08:13 UTC

Lebanese Jews built a synagogue on the site of Israeli destruction in Beirut with the full support of the community, and no political haymaking. Care to try again?

dwesley September 21 2010, 02:16:26 UTC

Lebanese Jews built a synagogue on the site of Israeli destruction in Beirut with the full support of the community, and no political haymaking. Care to try again?

They repaired a synagogue that had been built in 1925 which was damaged by the Israeli's. So, no, I don't think I need to try again.

Two blocks from... trinker September 19 2010, 07:21:32 UTC

...edge of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park, which actually *is* a Ground Zero for a nuclear bomb, there is a hotel, with a chapel inside.

A Christian chapel. Now, as you probably know, Japan is a predominately non-Christian nation, which was bombed (yes, it was the end of a war, and it wasn't terrorism) by a predominately Christian nation. And there's a chapel inside a building that, if I read the map right, is about 250meters or less from the edge of the Peace Park.

There's a church within 200 *feet* of the Jewish Center at Auschwitz.

19 assholes pulled off a major terrorist action, killing 3000, among whom were 30+ Muslims (NOT INCLUDING THE TERRORISTS). 19 assholes claimed by al-Qaeda. And for the sake of those 19, we should, as Americans, terrorize the Muslim-Americans, and turn this into a religious war?

If you want to argue, please visit my journal to do so. I'm including this comment in its own entry.

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