Mary Sue (Yes I am taking a break from schoolwork just to rant about this)

[sisterjune]

Mary SueI hate hate HATE this term. Just about every fandom I have been in has used this term to either discredit and undermine a female character and her numerous accomplishments or skill or to justify their dislike of her. Usually both. Yes there are underwritten, poorly developed female characters on tv. I can understand not liking them or

Comments

[kipani_mariko]

LOL for me I never truly grasped the term 'mary sue' since like you said, people seem to like to alter the definition of it to justify their irrational dislike for a character at times. I can understand the basic idea behind it and I can laugh at really bad ones but it's one of those things that can be overused. I also feel like there are better ways to explain why you don't care for a character if you feel she is too weak or you don't agree with her actions. But I also fear that people just like to dislike a female character simply because she exists. Some characters I feel are unbelievable in that they are too 'perfect', but in a sense for a female to be a captivating heroine, I feel that she needs to possess some kind of special reason to grab people's attention and to root for her. But I dunno, again, I never use the term since I never fully understood how/why people use it XD

[sisterjune]

Sup Mari! Sorry for the late reply, been swamped with work. I kind of just posted the entry and ignored lj for the rest of the day.

For me Mary Sue as a word has just completely lost all meaning. I mean now adays when I hear someone say "mary sue" it can really mean whatever the hell that person wants it to mean. So even in cases where the word might really apply I hate it being used cause it doesnt even really mean what it's supposed to mean anymore. if that makes sense.

I agree that some characters are too perfect or just paper thin but I feel like at those moments I'd rather people call it like that, instead of Mary Sue cause as I said at this ponit wtf does that even really MEAN? I do wonder if anyone thinks about it anymore.

[acidpenguin46]

I can't stand the term Mary Sue either, for much the same reasons as you listed. I always think of it as a term describing a character, whether it is male or female, who is solely there as an author self-insert. Sure, there are examples of this in both fanon and canon, but most of the predominantly female characters that are referred to nowadays as "Mary Sue" hardly meet that criteria. It's just become a term used by people to justify their dislike of someone without explaining the real reasons why, and it annoys the hell out of me.

But that's society, I guess. Wy should we have to explain the problem we have with a character, when it is just so much easier to throw the term "Mary Sue" about, even when there is no real grounds for that term's use. *shakes head*

sorry for the late reply yo! school is a bitch :(

[sisterjune]

While I dont think a Mary Sue has to be a self insert exactly, I always felt that was a big part of it. and If you take that out then you gotta do twice as much to justify a character as a Mary Sue.
Sure, there are examples of this in both fanon and canon, but most of the predominantly female characters that are referred to nowadays as "Mary Sue" hardly meet that criteriaEXACTLY. It's not that there are no Mary Sue's out there. There so is, but no where near the amount of Sues as there are people using the term. and I'll say what I told the others, Mary Sue has to me lost it's meaning over time. It did mean something once and now it doesnt. and To me what it meant before was either a fanfic author despoiling a good show with her poorly written self insert original characters or a published author who's female characters had no real depth and were simply idealized versions of what a woman should be rather than a real woman. So Mary Sue was a way of saying "Stay away this writer sucks/sucks at writing women" but now to me it's used far

[banana_cave]

I have heard the term "Mary Sue" used in terms of fanfic, such as creating a new character who is beautiful & awesome and has sex with the main character. I can understand that being used in fanfic as an applicable term in cases like that

[sisterjune]

Yeah my beef was about Tara from Leverage. Girlfriend was in ONE episode and barely herself in it and people are already saying she's a Mary Sue?! THE HELL? I mean her only crime in that episode was to be damn good at what she does. and how in the hell is that a crime I ask you? (well she techinically is a criminal but...) It jjust drove me nuts and when I went to refute the guy who called a Mary Sue, with thought out facts and plot referances and things, this shithead responds to me with the results of an internet mary sue test saying "well the test says she is so she must be!" and I just stopped replying at that point cause whatever I said would be completly hostile and I am not about to smack a bitch down in the show runner's BLOG. I am too classy for that. But my hands itched for hours let me tell you

[banana_cave]

There is a Mary Sue test? Why? LOL! That person is obviously a moron and not worth your time.

[darkeyedwolf]

IMO Mary Sues don't have to be self-inserts. Some people will disagree (there's always an argument on metafandom whether the term can be limited to fanfiction or if it's legitimately applicable to all media) but that's where you get the term "canon Sue." People like Ginny Weasley and Elizabeth Swann -- super-special princesses who aren't necessarily authorial fantasies but who are too smart and amazing and perfect to be anything but a joke.

Me, I've always understood Mary Sue to define how everyone else acts towards a female character. Her inherent beauty/skill/success isn't as important as how the other characters react to it. If all the men love her and all the women are jealous and even her enemies admire her, if she's the center of everyone's world and they discuss among themselves how beautiful and unique and wonderful she is, if she's always right and her suitors are throwing themselves off cliffs just for a whiff of her peach raisin buttermilk sparkle hair, that is when you can slap on the label. You can have a three-faced

sorry for the late reply! I just now finished most of my HW

[sisterjune]

Yeah I dont think Mary Sue's HAVE to be self inserts per se but do have to be idealized, fantasies. The Perfect Woman or something to that degree. I honestly see very few instances of this on television (or film) although I can think of alot of book heroines where that term might actually apply as it should. Bella for example and I agree that should would fit the term Mary Sue to a T. But honestly most of the people I hear called Mary Sue's, just dont. and I dont think Mary Sue as a term works as well in TV media. and reason is in a book, you have ONE author, usually just the one. Some authors are very transparent in how they want you to see or feel about their characters and in how they fulfill their fantasies via their writing. In Tv, there are MANY writers and it's alot harder to come up with these issues that usually are what create Mary Sue's in the first place. Which isnt to say that they NEVER happen but certianly not in the frequency with which people use the word

[nekokonneko]

The last time I can recall a character truly being identified as a Mary Stu in original work was Bella in Twilight. It's mind boggling to think a minor, newly introduced character gets that thrown it at them. Insane Troll Logic at it's finest. It is seriously annoying, the ridiculous standard of beauty/intelligence/toughness/competence/anything that female characters are held up to. In act, there are waaay more Gary Stues than Mary Sues in original works . Male character endowed with God-like abilities, lauded by all, with looks and charm that wets every woman's knickers.....this character is so prevalent, it's part of the scenery. >:|

hi elle!

[sisterjune]

Ok Bella I can see being called a Mary Sue and in fact I can think of alot of book heroines where that term might actually apply as it should. But honestly I just DONT think it belongs in visual media. and I wish had the time right now to go into why. But it really goes back to how in a book, you have ONE author and some authors are very transparent in how they want you to see or feel about their characters and in how they fulfill their fantasies via their writing. In Tv, there are MANY writers and it's alot harder to come up with this issues that usually are what create Mary Sue's in the first place. but Mary Sue is basically an idealized version of a female, someone without real depth of character or human flaws, someone who is a cipher for the plot or clearly a self insert of the author. Mary Sue should NOT mean, a woman who is really ridiculously competant or pretty or popular with men. Yes the combination of these things can be hard to swallow but if it's tempered with something else or if the character makes sense, as a real

hi tai! <3

[nekokonneko]

We American visual media has many writers, but British programmes usually have just one head writer who overseas the whole thing and single people who write episodes, so it's more likely to happen there. I've heard people call Rose Tyler and Gwen Cooper [Doctor Who and Torchwood respectively] avatars of RTD. God damn, I bring everything back to DW @.@

You read my mind! James Bond is EXACTLY who I was thinking about when I wrote about Gary Stus.