What really tans my hide regarding marketing and advertising is how they talk about all of this and spend so much money on it, then when someone comes along and criticizes the manipulation going on they say "Do you really think we have an effect on how people act?" At least, that's been my experience when I've been more hostile than buddy-buddy.
Effect, i.e. influence, does not imply manipulation.
Suppose you are about to buy a waffle for $2 at the grocery store and I happened to be walking by. I notice that you have Eggo's and I tell you that the 711 across the street sells the exact same product for $1. If you put down the $2 waffle and go to 711, I have influenced you. Have I manipulated you? Does it matter if it were not a person you had any relation to? Does it matter if it were a sign? etc.
I do not disagree that some marketers have an intent to manipulate, but I would argue that they are unsuccessful. The only successful marketers are so because they purposely, or accidentally, increase the information available to the consumer, who then makes HER OWN decision. This is a mutually beneficial relationship, like all trade is.
On an educated individual basis, sure. But what about the mass popularity of McDonald's, Reality TV, and so on? Based on quality and taste, McDonalds shouldn't even be in the Millions and Millions served, let alone Billions and Billions.
I'm not against advertising, how else will you let people know what you're selling? But when I open Ad Age and see TV stations, news papers, and magazines saying they can deliver so many millions of some demographic right to your door step, or that a certain group trusts them, that disgusts me.
And not all trade is mutually beneficial. In theory, in a perfect, efficient, marketplace, it would be. But, like high school physics, it doesn't always work out according to textbook. I don't believe such a marketplace is possible.
I think that is surprising for a philosophy that is generally anti-elitist to be elitist with regards to this question. That you disagree with the people who choose, of their own free will, to shop at McDonald's, watch Reality TV, and so on, does not prove that they are wrong and you are right. People have different tastes and the popularity of various products is a reflection of that. It is also important not to forget that even though McDonald's is by far more popular, in almost every American city you can easily find as many types of cuisine as your heart desires from sushi bars, to Indian restaurants, to Thai food, and authentic Italian.
I agree that the advertisements in Ad Age, etc. are disgusting, but I also think going to the bathroom can be disgusting. I don't see why just because something is disgusting means it is wrong, evil, etc. (Also note that I think those advertisers are over estimating their worth
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...interestingrockcandi182February 1 2005, 21:34:08 UTC
i despise the relationship between one's own self, personal thought, behavior, what have you, and turning it into a force able to be marketed--in the abstract sense-- for other people's analysis (whether that purpose be job related, or simply social networking- although they're often the same thing)
LIFE IS ABOUT MARKETING!!!!!!!!
if we don't conform to certain cultural intelligence standards, we are therefore sub-par. i may not be explaining this well. i think its my beef with the outer/inner world in general.
I'll ignore the dig at capitalism, my favourite thing, and instead thank you for your reference to the Douglas Holt paper. I just read it. Most of the time when I'm reading research in my areas, qualitative surveys are very uncommon, so it is interesting to read such research, and particularly with regards to an interesting area.
I do agree that marketeers are appreciable for their ability to ask hard questions that are typically ignored. Two links for you: Grant McCracken's blog, he is an economist and cultural anthropologist. Paul Graham's essay, What You Can't Say.
Jé
p.s. Although you didn't mention it, I'll presume you dislike like globalization as well as capitalism, but the admirable chef's job would be a lot more difficult without all the ingredients from all over the globe, that are only here due to free trade.
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Suppose you are about to buy a waffle for $2 at the grocery store and I happened to be walking by. I notice that you have Eggo's and I tell you that the 711 across the street sells the exact same product for $1. If you put down the $2 waffle and go to 711, I have influenced you. Have I manipulated you? Does it matter if it were not a person you had any relation to? Does it matter if it were a sign? etc.
I do not disagree that some marketers have an intent to manipulate, but I would argue that they are unsuccessful. The only successful marketers are so because they purposely, or accidentally, increase the information available to the consumer, who then makes HER OWN decision. This is a mutually beneficial relationship, like all trade is.
Jé
Reply
I'm not against advertising, how else will you let people know what you're selling? But when I open Ad Age and see TV stations, news papers, and magazines saying they can deliver so many millions of some demographic right to your door step, or that a certain group trusts them, that disgusts me.
And not all trade is mutually beneficial. In theory, in a perfect, efficient, marketplace, it would be. But, like high school physics, it doesn't always work out according to textbook. I don't believe such a marketplace is possible.
Reply
I agree that the advertisements in Ad Age, etc. are disgusting, but I also think going to the bathroom can be disgusting. I don't see why just because something is disgusting means it is wrong, evil, etc. (Also note that I think those advertisers are over estimating their worth ( ... )
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(whether that purpose be job related, or simply social networking- although they're often the same thing)
LIFE IS ABOUT MARKETING!!!!!!!!
if we don't conform to certain cultural intelligence standards, we are therefore sub-par.
i may not be explaining this well. i think its my beef with the outer/inner world in general.
Reply
I do agree that marketeers are appreciable for their ability to ask hard questions that are typically ignored. Two links for you: Grant McCracken's blog, he is an economist and cultural anthropologist. Paul Graham's essay, What You Can't Say.
Jé
p.s. Although you didn't mention it, I'll presume you dislike like globalization as well as capitalism, but the admirable chef's job would be a lot more difficult without all the ingredients from all over the globe, that are only here due to free trade.
Reply
Man, I can't even find that in the dictionary.
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also: Kitchen Confidential was such a wonderful book.
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