A Manly-Man's Reaction to Joanna Russ's "When It Changed"

[southernweirdo]

What follows is in no way a formal criticism or review. This is simply a narrative of my reactions to “When It Changed” by Joanna Russ.  While I haven’t formally taken “The Russ Pledge,” I have been reading more short fiction by women authors lately and have been intending to write about my experience - I started doing this last month on my own

Comments

[elorie]

I'm actually not the biggest fan of her fiction...I think that's probably because I didn't get to experience it when it was radical and new...but I love love love How to Suppress Women's Writing. It's snarky and intellectual and inspiring and infuriating...the last because that shit is still true forty years later. It is still a fact, two hundred years after Jane Austen, that writing under a male or gender-neutral pseudonym is better for a woman's career.

I think the physicality of the descriptions is purposeful, and it's negative to get your attention. If it was positive, you might miss how creepy it is to be dehumanized and described in terms of your body alone all the fricking time. I think that also is different now; one of the things that *has* changed (not for the better) is that men are increasingly held to ridiculous air-brushed standards of physical beauty. That is already having its negative impact (eating disorders among young men is on the rise) but still doesn't hit the psyche of men in quite the same way yet, I don'

[southernweirdo]

"That is already having its negative impact (eating disorders among young men is on the rise) but still doesn't hit the psyche of men in quite the same way yet, I don't think

[elorie]

Well...consider the difference between being called "ugly" for a man and for a woman. "You are one ugly sonofabitch" said by a male character to another in a movie is...mildly insulting, but not devastating. It's verbal arm-punching. But if said to a female character, it's dire

[southernweirdo]

Arg. Computer ate my response

[rose_lemberg]

You know, if I were a woman growing up with this portrayal of women, I might be pretty angry, too. I personally don’t like anger. I think it pollutes the soul and can stifle communication

Not being angry is a privilege.

Just saying.

[southernweirdo]

I know what you're saying. That is exactly the kind of context that makes this story work so well. Thanks for swinging by Rose. Hope all's well! :)

[threeoutside]

Glad you got it. But realize, you've only started to scratch the surface. We've had this crap in all facets of our lives ever since humans became humans. The well of rage runs very, very deep. Most of us also love the men in our lives, because as you say, most men aren't 100% that stereotype. But I've never met a man yet who didn't have some of the basic assumptions hard-wired into his system. Sure, credit for any attempts to alter their subsequent actions. But - that doesn't mean "the problem" is anywhere NEAR gone. Case in point: IS the US going to leave Afghanistan without trying to secure its womens' and girls' basic human rights are respected once we're gone? Is the US even going to TRY?

[elorie]

Hell, lots of women harbor those assumptions. I'm not sure about the idea of "hard-wired" though...it's culture. Culture can be changed. But slowly. It doesn't happen just like that.

[southernweirdo]

I'm a guy, so I can't ever understand a woman's experience 100%. Call it priveledge if you will, but I prefer calling it genetics -- I was born this way! :) All the same, I understand what you are talking about. Taking myself for example: I grew up (like most of my generation) in a home where my mother cooked and cleaned. My dad worked as the primary bread-winner, and when he came home, would play with us kids and watch television, sometimes have a drink, and basically rest. There are family members who hear me talking about cooking and cleaning up around the house (my wife and I both work and try to be equal partners) who simply can't understand me. They think, for some reason, that my helping around the house makes me somewhow less of a man, I guess. It's a stupid stereotype if you ask me, but it is the result of tradition and upbringing. It's a hard change to make, it's breaking from long-standing traditions. But we're progressing...I think. Sometimes, however, I wonder

[elorie]

It's not an either-or situation. Plus...the most efficient way to have SF engage with gender is to have more women writers. Not the only way, but the most efficient. Also, if you aren't placing exactly the same burden of social consciousness on everyone, there's a double standard there. Basically...I shouldn't have to wait until every woman in the world enjoys the same privileges I do to get a fair shake in my chosen career, or get presented with a false dichotomy about where my energy goes. I am totally capable of writing both letters to my Congresscritter *and* stories.

[wendigomountain]

Do you have a link to the controversy on all of this? I read the story a couple minutes ago and thought it was good stuff. I thought it was less of what at the time could have been construed as "Radical women's libber wish-fulfillment" and more like "we've lived like this for 30 generations and some jackass comes along and tells us to change?"

It wouldn't be much different if an alien being came to the planet and said "We used to be your third gender. Now, we want to probe you for reproduction and pleasure."

No thanks! It might have worked in ancient Sumeria, but those ships have sailed!

It's weird that people could be viewing this as a Utopian/feminist ideal, a world without men, when I see just as much brutality and brashness attributed to male roles and stereotypes as the women in this narrative. Meaning that such things are not exclusive to gender.

I went into this expecting Valerie Solanas's SCUM Manifesto, but found a really cool story!

[southernweirdo]

Glad you enjoyed the story! I can't find a link, but before reading it, I kept seeing it referred to as "controversial" before reading it. I did come across a negative review of this story prior to writing this reaction by a golden age author, but can't find a link or even remember where I read it or who it was by... But it did win a Nebula Award and was nominated for a Hugo, so it appears it wasn't absolutely reviled at the time by any stretch.

[bondo_ba]

My reaction to this one was actually milder than yours (and I'm a famous eye-roller). I tend to read fiction from a character's POV, and this one had me reading, which is what counts.

Of course, it's just a story (and so are the ones that go completely the other way), so one can just toss aside the real world and focus on the speculation - which is what SF is all about!