To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 17:12:58 UTC
Here's a question I've been pondering since KM2: What do anons think of constructive criticism on the (or any, really) meme?
My gut reaction is no. While some fantastic stories come out of the meme, it's often true that what gets submitted here isn't the polished version that may appear on someone's LJ at a later date, and things that could be pointed out here may already be known to the author, who was going to fix it in post anyway.
My other reason for a no is the whole idea that fills are basically gift fic, and it's never polite to comment on a gift. But at the same time, I think it's safe to say that most KMers enjoy writing and want to improve their skill. To that end, would constructive criticism, even on a gift fic, still be offensive?
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 18:49:53 UTC
From my understanding, if the author says "concrit appreciated" or something along those lines, it's appropriate to leave it within the thread. Otherwise, concrit would probably be appreciated on a private, case-by-case basis.
Personally I love concrit more than squee-filled comments because it gives me a chance to defend and/or reflect upon my writing and shows me that the reader really has read and does care about what she's read. It's really flattering that someone would take the time to craft together a response that is more than just a squee.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 19:51:52 UTC
I usually don't offer any unless the author asks for it, simply because like you said, these are all basically 'gift fics'. If the writing is bad it doesn't bother me; I'll either not read it, or just smile that some new writer has come out of their shell to have fun on the KM. It's not like someone's writing skill on here has any dire consequences for anybody IRL :P
So, writer anons...Ask for concrit and you shall receive.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 22:33:21 UTC
I don't usually post concrit on here... or anywhere, in fact, unless it's requested. If I don't like what I'm reading, I just hit the back button. Luckily that doesn't happen too often here! :)
That being said, I'm always kinda shaky on how my own writing is perceived, so next time I make a post I may add a "concrit welcome" note to see what people say!
How do people feel about unsolicited concrit? I'm an artist by career, so I expect critique of my work by default, and welcome it. But not everyone has a thick skin, and I'm sure folks have submitted fic to the meme with no illusion that it was a masterwork of literature, and no expectation that it be analyzed as such. But would you feel outright offended if someone offered crit that hadn't been explicitly asked for?
I agree that folks interested in getting critiqued should add a concrit welcome note to their posts. I think that on a meme this big, that draws authors of so many different styles and levels of talent, people could get some great responses.
"I'm sure folks have submitted fic to the meme with no illusion that it was a masterwork of literature, and no expectation that it be analyzed as such."
Yep, that's me. I have no disillusionment that I'm a great writer or anything, this is just something I do for fun. If someone offered crit on my story without it being asked for, I think it would depend most of all on the tone. If the commenter said something like "I noticed your sentence structure is more or less the same throughout the whole story, and I think your writing could be even better* if you tried switching things up a bit," I would be very receptive to that.
*I'm a big fan of the "even better" approach to critique. It's something one of my favorite conductors at school employs a lot, and it keeps things positive while you critique. :)
On the other hand, if the commenter said "You should vary your sentence structure, it's kind of boring this way," then I might take offense.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 22:45:46 UTC
I may be biased. I have pretty think skin as an art major to concrit, but I'm new to this ficcing business and use the anon km to stretch my legs and experiment in writing different styles and subject matter. I would probably be very discouraged by concrit on my fic at this stage, even though it would probably benefit me in the long run. It's a bad quality in a writer, but it's true
( ... )
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 23:24:48 UTC
I think most folks gauge success on the meme by comments. There's no other way to judge, really, since we can't track thread views or anything.
Of course, the immediate question when you don't get any comments is, "What did I do wrong?" and you can't ask for comments outright without looking, as you said, like a comment whore. It's situations like that where I'd actually like concrit, because without knowing what I could've improved on I'm really just I'm typing blind; instead, I've learned to swallow my losses, move on to the next story, and hope that I'll stumble across a better formula next time.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 27 2010, 00:13:36 UTC
Of course, the immediate question when you don't get any comments is, "What did I do wrong?" and you can't ask for comments outright without looking, as you said, like a comment whore. As a reader, I don't comment on everything I like (or don't like for that matter). Quite often, it's because I have nothing better to offer than, "I enjoyed it," which sounds half-hearted but actually means precisely that--I read it, I enjoyed it! It does depend on mood (e.g. just feel like reading, not feeling intelligent enough to comment) and whether I am at my computer when I'm reading--harder to comment anonymously via phone
( ... )
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 27 2010, 04:12:42 UTC
I think people shouldn't hesitate to leave "I liked this" comments, especially for fics that are short on comments. It's a nice courtesy to the author, it may start a dialogue, and chances are it'll encourage more fic.
It's a shame when great fics or updates to great fics appear to be ignored, even though just looking at the quality of the writing I'm sure they were read and enjoyed by at least some people. If you can think of something specific to remark on that's a bonus not a requirement.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 23:11:28 UTC
If anon authors asked for concrit I might be more inclined to give it if I could stay anon. I know it's kind of cowardly to criticize anonymously, but even when it's asked for I feel like kind of a jerk pointing out things I didn't like.
Even if I were better at giving crit, if it wasn't asked for on a meme, then it's a definite no. It's a gift fic, and I'm mostly just glad it was written in the first place.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 26 2010, 23:17:29 UTC
Aw, don't feel like a jerk anon! Critique is as helpful to the giver as it is to the receiver. Analyzing anything is a great way to identify potential pitfalls in your own work, so you can correct them on the fly. Don't think of it as pointing out things you didn't like; think of it as a way to make the receiver (and yourself!) more awesome.
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 27 2010, 00:54:51 UTC
Hmm...Thanks to this conversation I'm making a mental note to comment on any fics I read where there are no other comments.
(Author anons...When you have no comments, realize...Somewhere out there somebody read your fic and liked it, and that someone was me, the Self-Esteem Fairy. so keep on writin'!)
Re: To Crit or not to Crit?
anonymous
February 28 2010, 01:50:07 UTC
For me the emphasis is on volume. This is the first kinkmeme I've ever seen that's not just eight million prompts and a bunch of 'ooh, that would be so cool'. If I don't like a fic, I don't say anything about it, which makes me neurotic when I don't get comments, but oh well. This is not a workshop, this is not improve your craft (any more than inevitably happens, since the more you write the better you get at it) this is MAKE PORN NOW. FOR THE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRDDDE!
My gut reaction is no. While some fantastic stories come out of the meme, it's often true that what gets submitted here isn't the polished version that may appear on someone's LJ at a later date, and things that could be pointed out here may already be known to the author, who was going to fix it in post anyway.
My other reason for a no is the whole idea that fills are basically gift fic, and it's never polite to comment on a gift. But at the same time, I think it's safe to say that most KMers enjoy writing and want to improve their skill. To that end, would constructive criticism, even on a gift fic, still be offensive?
I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.
Reply
Personally I love concrit more than squee-filled comments because it gives me a chance to defend and/or reflect upon my writing and shows me that the reader really has read and does care about what she's read. It's really flattering that someone would take the time to craft together a response that is more than just a squee.
Reply
So, writer anons...Ask for concrit and you shall receive.
Reply
That being said, I'm always kinda shaky on how my own writing is perceived, so next time I make a post I may add a "concrit welcome" note to see what people say!
Reply
I agree that folks interested in getting critiqued should add a concrit welcome note to their posts. I think that on a meme this big, that draws authors of so many different styles and levels of talent, people could get some great responses.
Reply
Yep, that's me. I have no disillusionment that I'm a great writer or anything, this is just something I do for fun. If someone offered crit on my story without it being asked for, I think it would depend most of all on the tone. If the commenter said something like "I noticed your sentence structure is more or less the same throughout the whole story, and I think your writing could be even better* if you tried switching things up a bit," I would be very receptive to that.
*I'm a big fan of the "even better" approach to critique. It's something one of my favorite conductors at school employs a lot, and it keeps things positive while you critique. :)
On the other hand, if the commenter said "You should vary your sentence structure, it's kind of boring this way," then I might take offense.
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Of course, the immediate question when you don't get any comments is, "What did I do wrong?" and you can't ask for comments outright without looking, as you said, like a comment whore. It's situations like that where I'd actually like concrit, because without knowing what I could've improved on I'm really just I'm typing blind; instead, I've learned to swallow my losses, move on to the next story, and hope that I'll stumble across a better formula next time.
Reply
As a reader, I don't comment on everything I like (or don't like for that matter). Quite often, it's because I have nothing better to offer than, "I enjoyed it," which sounds half-hearted but actually means precisely that--I read it, I enjoyed it! It does depend on mood (e.g. just feel like reading, not feeling intelligent enough to comment) and whether I am at my computer when I'm reading--harder to comment anonymously via phone ( ... )
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It's a shame when great fics or updates to great fics appear to be ignored, even though just looking at the quality of the writing I'm sure they were read and enjoyed by at least some people. If you can think of something specific to remark on that's a bonus not a requirement.
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Even if I were better at giving crit, if it wasn't asked for on a meme, then it's a definite no. It's a gift fic, and I'm mostly just glad it was written in the first place.
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Yes, this!
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(Author anons...When you have no comments, realize...Somewhere out there somebody read your fic and liked it, and that someone was me, the Self-Esteem Fairy. so keep on writin'!)
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