On silver ions

[sparkofcreation]

So, after much back-and-forth with Gareth over what sort of washer we want to get for the new house, we've settled on probably either an LG front-loader or a Samsung front-loader with SilverCare. The obvious advantage is that, since silver is antibiotic, clothes can be disinfected in cold water [and apparently hot water washes aren't that great at

Comments

[palliddreamer]

Honestly I'm not so sure about silver toxicity, though I'd imagine the risk is pretty small. But why are you so concerned about disinfecting your clothes? Most people don't have such a feature and they're not getting sick from bacterial infections. Are you worried about strep throat? Flu virus? It would seem to me a marketing gag that's ultimately unnecessary. How much extra does it cost? Anything you wear will ultimately be recontaminated the minute it comes out anyway.

Heck, I practically live in a hospital and I'm not too worried about it (though I don't wear ties or a white coat and wash my hands quite thoroughly and frequently).

Fill me in. =)

[sparkofcreation]

No, I understand the value of being exposed to the microbes in your environment. We're more concerned about the smell of certain things that need to be washed in very cold water and never seem to smell quite clean.

How much extra does it cost?

If you buy the ugly champagne-colored one, less than the LG we're also considering, and less than most front-loaders. I guess they're desperate to get rid of that color. If they run out before we buy the house, a white one runs the same as the LG-it's the fake stainless steel ones that are ridiculously expensive. You also get a rebate from the city if you buy a high-efficiency washer, it's part of the water-saving measures in place (there are also rebates for replacing toilets, water heaters, dishwashers, and grass). Plus G's mum has offered to buy us a washer and dryer as a combo Christmas/housewarming present, so our plan is to put in some money of our own and buy a really nice one.

Anything you wear will ultimately be recontaminated the minute it comes out anyway. I believe the point is

[palliddreamer]

It still sounds like a bit of a gimmick, but hey, if it's the same price, why not

Oh...and

[palliddreamer]

More importantly, from an infectious diseases standpoint, there's not been any documented microbial resistance to silver/silver ions. Yet.

[jkrissw]

I always throw in a small amount of Pine-Sol when I'm doing towels, and every once in a while in mixed cotton knits (underwear, socks, etc). A friend of mine put me on to the idea years ago. She said she used to constantly get yeast infections before she started doing that, but never since.

[nadialena]

That sounds interesting . . . how small of an amount?

[jkrissw]

Not much - no more than 1/4 cup, and probably a shade less. I don't measure it. Ask ciorstan about it directly if you wish, as it was she who told me about it many years ago.

[jonjon_nl]

I don't think the ions will stay in the fabric. The ions are in suspension in the water and will tend to stay that way until they find an anion with which they can bind and form a molecule which will then be able to deposit itself in the fabric.
I don't see why silver ions would pass through your pores either. The pores are not inlets and the fluxes through them are, I believe, controlled by a number of processes (otherwise we'd all get aids, for instance, via our pores).
I wouldn't mind about problems with silves in the wastewater either. Wastewater will be treated and the amount of silver it'll be released isn't that much.
I'm just wondering why silver cations would be antibiotic. I don't understand.

[jonjon_nl]

I was searching (because I know that silver isn't toxic when used in dental fillings) and found a condition called argyria. They say the following about it on wikipedia:
"ince at least the early part of the 20th century, doctors have known that silver or silver compounds can cause some areas of the skin and other body tissues to turn gray or blue-gray. Argyria occurs in people who eat or breathe in silver over a long period (several months to many years). A single exposure to a silver compound may also cause silver to be deposited in the skin and in other parts of the body; however, this is not known to be harmful. It is likely that many exposures to silver are necessary to develop argyria. Once argyria develops, it is believed to be permanent. However, the condition is thought to be only a "cosmetic problem". Most doctors and scientists believe that the discoloration of the skin seen in argyria is the most serious health effect of silver (in small doses)."http://en.

so does it have an EPA registration number?

[wifchen]

If it claims to kill germs, it is a pesticide under federal law. If it doesn't, you could contact epa.gov and report it.

Congratulations on your house. I am thrilled for you!

Every time we pass exit 9 on the NJ tpk we look over at the bridge that went to your old neighborhood and think of you.

Re: so does it have an EPA registration number?

[mmaestro]

Already done, out of Colorado, I believe. They lost the case, and the EPA ruled that it was simply an appliance that they didn't have to register. We're on our way out right now, but we'll look up the link when we get back.

Thanks for the good wishes.

Re: so does it have an EPA registration number?

[mmaestro]

Just did a bit of hunting to dig up a story on this, and instead came across this short snippet. Apparently Monday, the EPA officially reversed its position that the washer is merely an appliance and, because the silver is released into the wastewater as a separate product, is going to take a fresh look at whether it should be regulating the system. So the question is... does this mean we should go for a different machine or not?

Also, if you're interested, I made a post on my journal trying to address some of the specific concerns related to the fact the silver is released in the form of nanoparticles.