Too Jewish?

[eveningblue]

Something that has always interested me (and that came up in this discussion of Jewish characters played by non-Jewish seeming actors) is this notion of a tv show seeming "too Jewish" by Hollywood standards. rydra_wrong explains this phenomenon here:

Neal Gabler's An Empire Of Their Own: How The Jews Invented Hollywood argues that this is precisely why

Comments

Chocolate is Jewish, Fudge is Goyish

[executrix]

as Lenny Bruce said, all New Yorkers are Jewish, even if they're Catholic.

I was going to post about the incredible influence that writers coming out of the adult summer camps in the Poconos have had on TV--e.g., first the Your Show of Shows people, then those they worked with. In effect, a lot of TV reflects Jewish comedy coming out of the Borscht Belt, whether or not the third generation of writers are Jewish, and this inflects the speech and actions of characters whether or not they're described as Jewish.

Re: Chocolate is Jewish, Fudge is Goyish

[eveningblue]

Yeah, that's a really good point. A lot of what we are calling Jewish has to do with inflection, timing, etc.

(By Poconos I'm guessing you mean Catskills? Unless there was another Borscht Belt in Pennsylvania.)

Re: Chocolate is Jewish, Fudge is Goyish

[executrix]

I should look up my Broadway history, but I think Tamiment and the other one whose name I can't remember were in the Poconos. It's like, after you worked there for a season you got a job in the Borscht Belt.

Re: Chocolate is Jewish, Fudge is Goyish

[eveningblue]

Oh, I'd never heard of this! Interesting...

[npkedit]

I will say this. For an obvious non-Jew(played by a non-Jew), Greg House knows a whole lot about Judaism and speaks a whole lot of Yiddish (and some Hebrew to boot!). Even Orthodox me has been floored by some of the references, which go way beyond the "New York" knowledge base.

A lot of that probably stems from creator David Shore (who in an absolutely fab in-joke even references his two brothers, who are rabbis at Aish HaTorah). There are moments where House seems almost more Jewish than Wilson, who is supposed to be Jewish, but never demonstrates that one iota.

[rosehiptea]

I was about to point out the same thing. I don't think I'd ever know Wilson was Jewish if House didn't tease him about it all the time. And meanwhile House is making jokes about "613" being a Jewish number and so forth.

Cuddy "looks Jewish" to the extent that there is any such thing and House teased her about using J-Date but she seems to never talk about it.

[eveningblue]

*Jinx*!

(see below, re: Cuddy)

[eveningblue]

I absolutely agree with everything you say. House is way more Jewish than Wilson. It's weird. Some of his Yiddishisms have cracked me up; I should keep a list.

I think Cuddy is supposed to be Jewish too, but I'm not sure. I might just be projecting the actor's Jewishness onto her character.

[rydra_wong]

What does it even mean to "seem Jewish"?

Okay, a thought: is this parallel to discussion of characters who may be "coded" as gay? It seems to involve some similar issues and problems.

On one level, saying "anyone who's a nerdy academic who talks really fast and waves their hands around = Jewish!" runs the risk of invoking a bunch of stereotypes (just like "any man who talks about decorating = gay!").

Yet at the same time, there's a lack of "out" gay and Jewish characters in the media, and you have a history of tv and movies attaching traditional/stereotypical cues to a character without stating overtly that they are such-and-such ...

How do we talk about that without just reinforcing those stereotypes?

[some_stars]

Yes! This is the exact same problem I have with wanting to talk about gay-but-not-gay characters. It's a totally valid phenomenon and it totally happens, but there's such an INCREDIBLY fine line between recognizing that a character just--SEEMS gay/Jewish, and reinforcing stereotypes. I can't always explain why a character feels "coded ---" to me, and it's not really something logical that I can argue when people say "oh, well, it's not like straight/non-Jewish people are never this and that," because that's true too. But the feeling is real.

[chopchica]

I don't even know if we really can, because so much of Judaism on TV feels like we've been thrown a tiny bone, and so we snap on it and devour it and then discuss it endlessly to make it even more than it is. Even the tiniest phrase or hand gesture suddenly turns into, "there's somebody like me!"

The main problem is that when you *only* have those things, it reinforces the behavior and if media Jews want to be Jewish, they need to look and act in a certain way to even qualify. You can't be a redheaded Jew or a Jew who doesn't like to argue or anything that isn't a preset part of the list.

I think basically we're screwed either way.

[astaria51]

So, really, EXACTLY the same as "coded gay"!

[abyssinia4077]

When I started watching Scrubs JD very much coded to me as Jewish (probably largely due to Zach Braff). I still remember watching an episode about Christmas and him obviously not being Jewish and being completely shocked. It almost felt like this odd betrayal of sorts.

I'm not sure exactly what it was about JD that coded me that way - something about the sense of humor, the neuroticism, just the way he interacted with everybody else.

[some_stars]

That feeling of betrayal! That's such an odd moment, isn't it, because you--well, I--don't feel exactly justified, but the emotion is totally real. I get it (as I mentioned above) with gay-coded characters too. And, I mean, I never feel this way about real people who turn out to be not Jewish or straight. Only when I'm watching a show. So it totally is about that yearning for representation.

[abyssinia4077]

Oh, man, I'm so glad I didn't come across as crazy!

Because I think it's exactly what you said - that yearning for representation (or maybe it's liking JD and the relatives in the back of my head asking when I'll find a nice Jewish guy....) and you feel like you're being represented and then BAM! Nope! Because, yep, not with the real people.

[astaria51]

Damn! I totally thought JD was Jewish. >_< I don't watch Scrubs regularly though, just when it's on and I'm not doing anything...if that makes sense.

I'm sure it IS Zach Braff and potentially the writers that give off that impression; his character in Garden State is a "culture Jew" and I'm sure this is representative of his life as much of that movie is. His acting isn't particularly unlike a young Woody Allen, to be honest - the neurotic, self-referential humor found in many Allen movies is very Scrubs. I sort of suspect that's intentional, that the writers are fans.

[astaria51]

JD has been pointed out!

Um, this is a very "cult" offering, but Dr Horrible/Billy from Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog seems very Jewish to me. The character seems like a cut-and-paste of Mark from RENT, and Mark actually IS Jewish. I can't separate the two in my head, lol - Dr Horrible seems like a crazy alter ego of Mark. Which is funny, because before I became obsessed with it, I had no idea Neil Patrick Harris played Mark during one tour (although now I'm really interested in finding bootleg of that...).

What's particularly funny is the inability of Joss to write a convincing Jew in Willow (at least in the opinion of most viewers) but to totally convince me that Dr Horrible is Jewish! I guess he gets boys better?

I don't think NPH is Jewish, however, nor do I think his "How I Met Your Mother" character comes off that way (or is).

[aecamadi]

Neil Patrick Harris (who also played Mark in Rent on Broadway) is not Jewish. For that matter, neither is Anthony Rapp, who originated the role of Mark, and appeared in the film in the role.

[astaria51]

Didn't think so :) I do think Mark is believably Jewish, as an addendum, which is interesting given that Anthony Rapp is pretty much the defining performance for that character (everyone else seems like an imitation, although Neil Patrick Harris seems to do a pretty good Mark on his own time XD).

[aecamadi]

I definitely think Rapp as Mark is believably Jewish, again in that New York sort of way. Then again the only basis I have for comparison is Joey Fatone and that? Totally painful. (Doing N'Sync dance moves up on the table during La Vie Boheme? Just no, no, no.)