Damned Homos!
I bring to you, in all its glory, not one but TWO(!) brilliantly written and flawlessly argued letter to the editor from the Grand Rapids Press.
I laugh out loud, but it's really just sad because I'm sure this lady is serious.
Backstory: a gay Christian group, Soulforce, came to town to have dialogues with college students. Cornerstone barred them and Calvin let them in. This happened before I got into town and the debate is still raging.
"Jesus and Sinners"
Emy Dietz
I would like to reply to Dan Vander Kodde's letter ("No outreach from Cornerstone," Pulse, May 3): Time for Christians to be heard!
Yes, let's not forget that Christians are a horribly persecuted minority in this country. Hell, living in Grand Rapids, I never hear the Christian point of view.
Cornerstone University refused to let Soulforce Equality, a gay-rights activist group, on campus.
The last thing we need is for groups to present intellectual debate on a college campus.
Thank God!
And the LORD God said unto the Israelites, "Thou shalt not talkest to those who disagreeth with thou."
God made me gay and gave me liberal parents. Thanks, Man.
Some still dare to stand up and be heard.
Myself, Emy Dietz, among them! Let's proclaim our ignorance to the world! Let them know that we Republicans don't believe in evolution, and are damn proud, dammit!
Dan Vander Kodde wrote that Jesus embraced sinners.
You say this like it's something that he made up. Actually, I think that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul wrote that. And, by extention, God.
He admits he thinks they are sinners?
Oooh, deafening sarcasm! Watch out, readers! There's a sarcasm master on the loose! Even if he thinks they're sinners, we've established that Jesus was down with that. And by the way, we're all sinners, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Yes, I just brought out a Bible verse. From memory. I win.
He tells what Jesus did -- embraced them, died for them.
Oh, so you're not contesting Biblical fact. That's good. I'm relieved. Of course, we're speaking of them here, those horrible horrible sinners. It's a good thing that you aren't among them. But wait...
I am not Jesus. I am not as strong as Jesus.
not Jesus = sinner
you = not Jesus
you = sinner
Where's your them now, Ms. Dietz? If you aren't Jesus, which you ardently claim, then you must be a sinner, which makes this assertion...
Yes we can be friends to sinners, but not when they go against our beliefs.
...even more fucking hilarious than it inherently is. "I can be your friend, la la la!" But heaven forbid that we're friends with people who do things we disagree with. I'd better stop talking to everyone at work, assuming that they're probably Republicans, or pro-Iraq War or something. I can't risk hearing different opinions than my own, lest I be forced to reconsider and find that maybe, I'm wrong. It's much better to subsist in ignorance. It's my own little world, but it's okay. They like me here. I'd also like to remind you that you're no longer talking about Soulforce but, rather, about everyone who happens to disagree with you.
And hey, if you're all not Jesus and everything, how do you get to decide what He believed? And hey, He apparently believed that hanging out with sinners was cool. Aren't we supposed to try to live like him? And doesn't that involve going outside of our little comfort zones to reach out to those less fortunate? How the hell are you even going to evangelize, if you aren't ready to talk to those lowly sinners? I'll bet I've converted more Christians than you, even since I became an ardent atheist!
What if these homosexuals change our young Christians to their beliefs?
OH NO! What if young people believe that it is okay to be nice to people who disagree with them? CHAOS! What if people see that they're wrong about something and change their minds?! Flip floppers! It is heretic lunacy to change one's opinion!
Dare we take the chance our young loved ones will be influenced and lose Jesus' love?
So you aren't Jesus, but you are somehow qualified to determine who deserves salvation? I don't have a specific verse on me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that it says very explicitly in the Bible that salvation is up to God and God alone. Not Emy Dietz of Belmont.
And now for an enlightening (haha) discussion of the merits of Hinduism versus Christianity.
"Fulfilling the Christian Mandate"
Laurie Schaff
In Amie Walker's Pulse letter "Is Christianity out to defeat Hinduism?" of May 5 she criticizes Christian missionaries in India for being intolerant and arrogant because they're sharing the gospel with Hindu children.
With an opening like this, I'm sure that the letter writer will be in no way, shape, or form ignorant. At all. Ever. But wait, there's an arrogant assumption of superiority in this very sentence! Ms. Schaff knows the one true thing we should be telling everyone.
She also suggests they "force" the children to convert or refuse them entrance to the school.
I'm sure they do. It's highly probable that they don't want to be surrounded by ignorant fools who disagree with them, and so deny admission to those still under the wrong convictions.
Of course, this is nonsense.
I look forward to hearing about your first-hand Indian street cred.
Ms. Walker says she doesn't know much about Hinduism.
And I'm sure you do. Maybe she doesn't know because our country has been hijacked by religious fanatics who believe "my religion, Right or...but we're always right!"
Obviously she doesn't know much about Christianity either. Jesus gave His followers the great commission to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel."
More importantly, Jesus led by example and showed that we should live among the sinners and, well, lead by example. "Preaching" doesn't have to be preachy. It can be a lifestyle. Jesus exemplified that, and that's why atheists still admit that his teachings are worthwhile and good.
It is our mandate as Christians and the most loving thing we can do for those who have never heard the truth.
Who is the arrogant one here? Your mandate as a Christian is not to be an asshole because of one literal meaning of an oft-translated Biblical passage. You'll win more followers by doing than by invasion and coercion.
What's happening in India today is nothing less than the truth and they are coming to Christ in great numbers even though it often means great persecution from their Hindu families.
So really what you're doing is ostracizing them from society. What's happening in India today isn't truth. Truth doesn't happen; it's not that kind of noun. What's happening is the spreading of one of many truths. I'm also skeptical regarding these conversions. Are they genuine or do the Indians receive benefits like, ahem, better schooling?
Children are teaching their parents and for the first time many are experiencing true joy and peace.
Throughout their persecution, they have inner peace. They probably had inner peace before, too. Christianity is not the only way to have inner peace. Ask a Buddhist.
Their is no coercion, only the truth is spoken in love.
I prefer this sentence to start with "theirs" and be thus eloquent, but really you are (or the typist is) just a moron. I'm still skeptical about the coercion aspect. I want to know exactly what you are saying to convert them, because if it's along the lines of, "You stupid Hindus you're going to Hell!!!" then it's still coercive and definitely not done of true love. Evangelists may believe they're doing things like this out of love, but I don't see the example of Jesus in their work. I only see evil.
I wonder if Ms. Walker realizes that the religion she is defending is one that regards animals as sacred but poor people as untouchables, the lowest of the low in the caste system.
Stupid people with their stupid cultural otherness. Why can't they just disregard animals and other aspects of the environment like we Christians can? And look at the capitalist caste system. We have the same phenomenon here, just replace "animals" with "money" or "power" and you've got America and, as it were, power-hungry evangelists who respect nothing except their own ideals and blind faith. It's hard to blame someone for the culture they were brought up in.
Is it any wonder that so many of these forgotten people are joyous when they hear the truth about their value to God?
No, especially when that's all you mention. "Here, have free a million dollars!" Do they know what they're agreeing to? People can spin all sorts of things and make them sound appealing. Witness infomercials. At least informercials have products you can test objectively.
It's truly awesome to hear the stories coming out of India from Christian missionaries and organizations such as Mission India.
If by awesome you mean "incredibly distressing." This kind of stuff makes me so mad.
Some of that last one was colored by my personal hatred of evangelism, but read the original text and at least credit me with some good barbs. Let me know if you like these; I enjoy doing them.
I laugh out loud, but it's really just sad because I'm sure this lady is serious.
Backstory: a gay Christian group, Soulforce, came to town to have dialogues with college students. Cornerstone barred them and Calvin let them in. This happened before I got into town and the debate is still raging.
"Jesus and Sinners"
Emy Dietz
I would like to reply to Dan Vander Kodde's letter ("No outreach from Cornerstone," Pulse, May 3): Time for Christians to be heard!
Yes, let's not forget that Christians are a horribly persecuted minority in this country. Hell, living in Grand Rapids, I never hear the Christian point of view.
Cornerstone University refused to let Soulforce Equality, a gay-rights activist group, on campus.
The last thing we need is for groups to present intellectual debate on a college campus.
Thank God!
And the LORD God said unto the Israelites, "Thou shalt not talkest to those who disagreeth with thou."
God made me gay and gave me liberal parents. Thanks, Man.
Some still dare to stand up and be heard.
Myself, Emy Dietz, among them! Let's proclaim our ignorance to the world! Let them know that we Republicans don't believe in evolution, and are damn proud, dammit!
Dan Vander Kodde wrote that Jesus embraced sinners.
You say this like it's something that he made up. Actually, I think that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul wrote that. And, by extention, God.
He admits he thinks they are sinners?
Oooh, deafening sarcasm! Watch out, readers! There's a sarcasm master on the loose! Even if he thinks they're sinners, we've established that Jesus was down with that. And by the way, we're all sinners, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Yes, I just brought out a Bible verse. From memory. I win.
He tells what Jesus did -- embraced them, died for them.
Oh, so you're not contesting Biblical fact. That's good. I'm relieved. Of course, we're speaking of them here, those horrible horrible sinners. It's a good thing that you aren't among them. But wait...
I am not Jesus. I am not as strong as Jesus.
not Jesus = sinner
you = not Jesus
you = sinner
Where's your them now, Ms. Dietz? If you aren't Jesus, which you ardently claim, then you must be a sinner, which makes this assertion...
Yes we can be friends to sinners, but not when they go against our beliefs.
...even more fucking hilarious than it inherently is. "I can be your friend, la la la!" But heaven forbid that we're friends with people who do things we disagree with. I'd better stop talking to everyone at work, assuming that they're probably Republicans, or pro-Iraq War or something. I can't risk hearing different opinions than my own, lest I be forced to reconsider and find that maybe, I'm wrong. It's much better to subsist in ignorance. It's my own little world, but it's okay. They like me here. I'd also like to remind you that you're no longer talking about Soulforce but, rather, about everyone who happens to disagree with you.
And hey, if you're all not Jesus and everything, how do you get to decide what He believed? And hey, He apparently believed that hanging out with sinners was cool. Aren't we supposed to try to live like him? And doesn't that involve going outside of our little comfort zones to reach out to those less fortunate? How the hell are you even going to evangelize, if you aren't ready to talk to those lowly sinners? I'll bet I've converted more Christians than you, even since I became an ardent atheist!
What if these homosexuals change our young Christians to their beliefs?
OH NO! What if young people believe that it is okay to be nice to people who disagree with them? CHAOS! What if people see that they're wrong about something and change their minds?! Flip floppers! It is heretic lunacy to change one's opinion!
Dare we take the chance our young loved ones will be influenced and lose Jesus' love?
So you aren't Jesus, but you are somehow qualified to determine who deserves salvation? I don't have a specific verse on me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that it says very explicitly in the Bible that salvation is up to God and God alone. Not Emy Dietz of Belmont.
And now for an enlightening (haha) discussion of the merits of Hinduism versus Christianity.
"Fulfilling the Christian Mandate"
Laurie Schaff
In Amie Walker's Pulse letter "Is Christianity out to defeat Hinduism?" of May 5 she criticizes Christian missionaries in India for being intolerant and arrogant because they're sharing the gospel with Hindu children.
With an opening like this, I'm sure that the letter writer will be in no way, shape, or form ignorant. At all. Ever. But wait, there's an arrogant assumption of superiority in this very sentence! Ms. Schaff knows the one true thing we should be telling everyone.
She also suggests they "force" the children to convert or refuse them entrance to the school.
I'm sure they do. It's highly probable that they don't want to be surrounded by ignorant fools who disagree with them, and so deny admission to those still under the wrong convictions.
Of course, this is nonsense.
I look forward to hearing about your first-hand Indian street cred.
Ms. Walker says she doesn't know much about Hinduism.
And I'm sure you do. Maybe she doesn't know because our country has been hijacked by religious fanatics who believe "my religion, Right or...but we're always right!"
Obviously she doesn't know much about Christianity either. Jesus gave His followers the great commission to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel."
More importantly, Jesus led by example and showed that we should live among the sinners and, well, lead by example. "Preaching" doesn't have to be preachy. It can be a lifestyle. Jesus exemplified that, and that's why atheists still admit that his teachings are worthwhile and good.
It is our mandate as Christians and the most loving thing we can do for those who have never heard the truth.
Who is the arrogant one here? Your mandate as a Christian is not to be an asshole because of one literal meaning of an oft-translated Biblical passage. You'll win more followers by doing than by invasion and coercion.
What's happening in India today is nothing less than the truth and they are coming to Christ in great numbers even though it often means great persecution from their Hindu families.
So really what you're doing is ostracizing them from society. What's happening in India today isn't truth. Truth doesn't happen; it's not that kind of noun. What's happening is the spreading of one of many truths. I'm also skeptical regarding these conversions. Are they genuine or do the Indians receive benefits like, ahem, better schooling?
Children are teaching their parents and for the first time many are experiencing true joy and peace.
Throughout their persecution, they have inner peace. They probably had inner peace before, too. Christianity is not the only way to have inner peace. Ask a Buddhist.
Their is no coercion, only the truth is spoken in love.
I prefer this sentence to start with "theirs" and be thus eloquent, but really you are (or the typist is) just a moron. I'm still skeptical about the coercion aspect. I want to know exactly what you are saying to convert them, because if it's along the lines of, "You stupid Hindus you're going to Hell!!!" then it's still coercive and definitely not done of true love. Evangelists may believe they're doing things like this out of love, but I don't see the example of Jesus in their work. I only see evil.
I wonder if Ms. Walker realizes that the religion she is defending is one that regards animals as sacred but poor people as untouchables, the lowest of the low in the caste system.
Stupid people with their stupid cultural otherness. Why can't they just disregard animals and other aspects of the environment like we Christians can? And look at the capitalist caste system. We have the same phenomenon here, just replace "animals" with "money" or "power" and you've got America and, as it were, power-hungry evangelists who respect nothing except their own ideals and blind faith. It's hard to blame someone for the culture they were brought up in.
Is it any wonder that so many of these forgotten people are joyous when they hear the truth about their value to God?
No, especially when that's all you mention. "Here, have free a million dollars!" Do they know what they're agreeing to? People can spin all sorts of things and make them sound appealing. Witness infomercials. At least informercials have products you can test objectively.
It's truly awesome to hear the stories coming out of India from Christian missionaries and organizations such as Mission India.
If by awesome you mean "incredibly distressing." This kind of stuff makes me so mad.
Some of that last one was colored by my personal hatred of evangelism, but read the original text and at least credit me with some good barbs. Let me know if you like these; I enjoy doing them.